| Author |
Message |
John Wright
Guest
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 Posted:
Thu Nov 24, 2005 4:11 pm Post subject:
Re: 512MB Garmin memory announced |
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On 19 Nov 2005 07:28:42 -0800, "peter" <prathman@comcast.net> wrote:
| Quote: | John Wright wrote:
IMHO Garmin provides more upgrades for free than
most other products I have bought.
IMHO it's (almost) proportional to the ammount of
bugs found in their products :)
Or their products being not quite ready - I have an eMap which on one
upgrade went from 1 route (!) to 50.
I disagree that that upgrade had anything to do with either 'bugs' or
product readiness. At the time the eMap was introduced, the only other
mapping Garmin handheld was the III+ which got very good reviews but
was regarded by many as having too complex a user interface. Garmin's
tech support also got many phone calls from customers confused about
all the display options, modes and settings.
|
You may disagree but that is not the way companies should be
behaving. Working in the Medical Devices industry we have to be aware
of what our customers want before we start designing a device. This
goes also for any industry who claim conformance to ISO 9000
| Quote: | So the eMap was marketed as a simple "electronic map" with almost no
user settable options - no custom fields, only one datum and location
format, a single route, bearings in cardinal directions (NE rather than
45°), no magnetic deviation setting, etc.
With the initial firmware it did just what it was advertised to do, but
naturally there were then complaints from customers who wanted many of
those options that had been deliberately left out. Firmware 2.50
responded to their requests and put back those user options but still
kept a simplified display format.
|
Yet it did not do what customers wanted. See the past decline of the
UK Motor Cycle manufacturers and the ongoing decline of US Car
Manufacturers when they produce things that don't meet customer
requirements.
--
John Wright
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
Groucho Marx |
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Phil Wheeler
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 24, 2005 5:08 pm Post subject:
Re: 512MB Garmin memory announced |
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| Quote: | So the eMap was marketed as a simple "electronic map" with almost no
user settable options - no custom fields, only one datum and location
format, a single route, bearings in cardinal directions (NE rather than
45°), no magnetic deviation setting, etc.
With the initial firmware it did just what it was advertised to do, but
naturally there were then complaints from customers who wanted many of
those options that had been deliberately left out. Firmware 2.50
responded to their requests and put back those user options but still
kept a simplified display format.
Yet it did not do what customers wanted. See the past decline of the
UK Motor Cycle manufacturers and the ongoing decline of US Car
Manufacturers when they produce things that don't meet customer
requirements.
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Garmins are not "manufactured" in Kansas. I believe they are from Taiwan. |
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Hans-Georg Michna
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 24, 2005 11:37 pm Post subject:
Re: 512MB Garmin memory announced |
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On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 11:37:37 -0600, tvnav.com wrote:
| Quote: | "Hans-Georg Michna" <hans-georgNoEmailPlease@michna.com> wrote in message
news:udo5o1l7haq292o528ddk4vb0ch6qbkl3o@4ax.com...
they prove that it is technically doable, that there is no
hardware limitation,
I have no idea what the hardware limitation was on the SP3 just as I'm
sure you don't either. There is NO reason for Garmin not to make the 512MB
work with the SP3 that I can think of so I'm sure it's either a hardware
limitation or that it would take too much programming time to make it
worthwhile. Your reasons don't make sense whatsoever.
|
Darrel,
why did you cut off the quote at that point? Let me repeat the
full text here. I wrote:
| Quote: | they prove that it is technically doable, that there is no
hardware limitation, unless the limitation is intentionally
designed into the device.
|
In other words, Garmin could have designed the devices to accept
larger memory modules like Compact Flash, but they chose not to.
And I have already explained why they chose not to. No
conspiracy here either, just plain and simple business sense,
from which you are even personally benefitting. Nobody expects
you to complain.
Actually I already wrote that we can't reasonably complain much
anyway, as Garmin is simply building what most customers will
buy.
It is just naive to believe that Garmin couldn't design devices
differently or that there are any fundamental technical
limitations that Garmin could not overcome.
Hans-Georg
--
No mail, please. |
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John Wright
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Nov 25, 2005 3:58 pm Post subject:
Re: 512MB Garmin memory announced |
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On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 16:58:01 GMT, Phil Wheeler <w6tuh-ng4@yahoo.com>
wrote:
| Quote: |
So the eMap was marketed as a simple "electronic map" with almost no
user settable options - no custom fields, only one datum and location
format, a single route, bearings in cardinal directions (NE rather than
45°), no magnetic deviation setting, etc.
With the initial firmware it did just what it was advertised to do, but
naturally there were then complaints from customers who wanted many of
those options that had been deliberately left out. Firmware 2.50
responded to their requests and put back those user options but still
kept a simplified display format.
Yet it did not do what customers wanted. See the past decline of the
UK Motor Cycle manufacturers and the ongoing decline of US Car
Manufacturers when they produce things that don't meet customer
requirements.
Garmins are not "manufactured" in Kansas. I believe they are from Taiwan.
|
It matters not where things are manufactured. As I said, we make
medical devices, parts of these are made in China but we are still
responsible to the FDA and MHRA (in the UK) for the way they are
designed. We are the design authority for these as I expect Garmin in
Kansas is wherever they are put together. ISO 9001 covers design as
well as manufacture.
--
John Wright
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
Groucho Marx |
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Phil Wheeler
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Nov 25, 2005 5:08 pm Post subject:
Re: 512MB Garmin memory announced |
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MP wrote:
| Quote: | Why is everything always a conspiracy for some people. It is likely
that this is simply a hardware issue based on the lack of available
address lines in the interface. IMHO Garmin provides more upgrades for
free than most other products I have bought.
Dale
I think there are clear evidences of conspiracy here!
The vendors of the time didn't want the devices to support future
memories, and to hide the conspicary, they made it look as a HW
limitation, by limiting the address space to something they called
"technically and commercially reasonable for time being".
;);););)
|
Yes, and to compound their poor behavior, they make us actually pay to
upgrade to the next model when it is released five or so years hence.
What callous disregard for their customers :) |
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Phil Wheeler
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Nov 25, 2005 5:08 pm Post subject:
Re: 512MB Garmin memory announced |
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John Wright wrote:
| Quote: |
It matters not where things are manufactured. As I said, we make
medical devices, parts of these are made in China but we are still
responsible to the FDA and MHRA (in the UK) for the way they are
designed. We are the design authority for these as I expect Garmin in
Kansas is wherever they are put together. ISO 9001 covers design as
well as manufacture.
|
Since "we" are responsible, I hereby delegate to you my part of the
resposibility: Go fix the problem, pal. Until you have achieved that
end, I assume you will be too busy to visit here again. |
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MP
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Nov 25, 2005 5:08 pm Post subject:
Re: 512MB Garmin memory announced |
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| Quote: | Why is everything always a conspiracy for some people. It is likely that
this is simply a hardware issue based on the lack of available address
lines in the interface. IMHO Garmin provides more upgrades for free than
most other products I have bought.
Dale
|
I think there are clear evidences of conspiracy here!
The vendors of the time didn't want the devices to support future
memories, and to hide the conspicary, they made it look as a HW
limitation, by limiting the address space to something they called
"technically and commercially reasonable for time being".
;);););)
MP
www.elisanet.fi/matti.puputti/Moottoripyora |
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Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 26, 2005 11:34 pm Post subject:
Re: 512MB Garmin memory announced |
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It was meant to be a great advertising event re '512MB Garmin memory
announced' for the Garmin fans who should be thankful for the next few
months of the great effort of Garmin tech prowess.
Time has really changed
Daniel |
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MP
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Nov 27, 2005 12:50 am Post subject:
Re: 512MB Garmin memory announced |
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dtong22@yahoo.com wrote:
| Quote: | It was meant to be a great advertising event re '512MB Garmin memory
announced' for the Garmin fans who should be thankful for the next few
months of the great effort of Garmin tech prowess.
Time has really changed
Daniel
|
Yes, times have changed. Nowadays there are 4 GB SD cards - not
Garmin's, though.
Personally I find difficult to justify the Garmin's policy on
proprietary memory cards - particularly when the price, memory size or
availability is concerned.
I'm looking forward to have one of these "new" 512 kB cards next summer,
as my current 128 + 256 were far too small to carry the maps for my last
summer motorcycle travels.
But I find it difficult to be "thankful" for this 512 kB memory card - I
would rather say "ok", but only if the price would be significantly
lower than what Darrel announced.
MP |
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Phil Wheeler
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Nov 27, 2005 1:08 am Post subject:
Re: 512MB Garmin memory announced |
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|
dtong22@yahoo.com wrote:
| Quote: | It was meant to be a great advertising event re '512MB Garmin memory
announced' for the Garmin fans who should be thankful for the next few
months of the great effort of Garmin tech prowess.
|
Not all bad. It made me check and find that I could add a 256M
cartridge to my SP-III collection .. and that covers about twice the
region I normally drive. |
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Hans-Georg Michna
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Nov 27, 2005 4:39 pm Post subject:
Re: 512MB Garmin memory announced |
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On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 18:50:03 GMT, MP wrote:
| Quote: | Yes, times have changed. Nowadays there are 4 GB SD cards - not
Garmin's, though.
Personally I find difficult to justify the Garmin's policy on
proprietary memory cards - particularly when the price, memory size or
availability is concerned.
|
MP,
this is regularly discussed here. The essence is that Garmin has
good business sense and adapts cleverly to a market that
consists mainly for first time buyers.
Since they have no clue what they're buying, it makes sense for
Garmin to make the things not very expandable, so all those
customers will, after a few years, discover that what they
really need has some more memory. Just in time, Garmin will
provide a little more memory---not quite enough for all
purposes, of course, but some more. Of course, older devices are
incompatible. You can't keep your Garmin GPS for too long---you
have to buy a new one.
Things will change when the market becomes more mature. For now
the best you can do is buy Garmin stock and finance your regular
GPS purchases with the gains. (:-)
Just watch it and sell in time, probably when you buy your first
non-Garmin GPS, a PDA perhaps.
Hans-Georg
--
No mail, please. |
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Phil Wheeler
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Nov 27, 2005 5:08 pm Post subject:
Re: 512MB Garmin memory announced |
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Hans-Georg Michna wrote:
| Quote: |
Since they have no clue what they're buying, it makes sense for
Garmin to make the things not very expandable, so all those
customers will, after a few years, discover that what they
really need has some more memory. Just in time, Garmin will
provide a little more memory---not quite enough for all
purposes, of course, but some more. Of course, older devices are
incompatible. You can't keep your Garmin GPS for too long---you
have to buy a new one.
|
H-G,
Isn't this somewhat historical vs. the current situation? My
understanding (I don't know the entire Garmin line of today) is that
they do have models which accommodate CF cards and therefore are very
expandable. Of course, they also have models with HDDs for driving and
hiking models with only internal memory.
My impression is that the days when they used proprietary memory cards
of limited memory and/or only had units with internal memory are now
history. Of course, those of us with an SP-III (discontinued) or eMap
(ditto) are limited by *past* design decisions. But we do have the
option of overcoming those constraints by purchasing a newer unit.
Phil |
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peter
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Nov 27, 2005 5:08 pm Post subject:
Re: 512MB Garmin memory announced |
|
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Hans-Georg Michna wrote:
| Quote: | Since they have no clue what they're buying, it makes sense for
Garmin to make the things not very expandable, so all those
customers will, after a few years, discover that what they
really need has some more memory. Just in time, Garmin will
provide a little more memory---not quite enough for all
purposes, of course, but some more. Of course, older devices are
incompatible. You can't keep your Garmin GPS for too long---you
have to buy a new one.
|
Yes, but it appears that this particular policy is now largely in the
past. Garmin's automotive units have had standard memory expansion for
some time and the recent (and somewhat premature) news about their new
"x" handhelds, the Legend/VistaCx, 60/76 C/CSx, covers that market as
well. So the remaining units with the proprietary memory are the marine
and aviation 376/396. |
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Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Nov 27, 2005 5:08 pm Post subject:
Re: 512MB Garmin memory announced |
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Things will change when the market becomes more mature. For now
| Quote: | the best you can do is buy Garmin stock and finance your regular
GPS purchases with the gains. (:-)
Just watch it and sell in time, probably when you buy your first
non-Garmin GPS, a PDA perhaps.
Hans-Georg
|
Garmin stock - not bad:
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=GRMN&t=5y&l=on&z=m&q=l&c=
Yes, I would think that the future of personal use GPS is PDA. I
would like to get away from Garmin and get that next. Can anybody
recommend a good website where I could learn about available PDA GPS? |
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Phil Wheeler
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Nov 27, 2005 11:23 pm Post subject:
Re: 512MB Garmin memory announced |
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z1307z@yahoo.com wrote:
| Quote: |
Yes, I would think that the future of personal use GPS is PDA. I
would like to get away from Garmin and get that next. Can anybody
recommend a good website where I could learn about available PDA GPS?
|
I have my doubts. Such PDAs have rechargeable batteries .. not all that
good for a field/hiking device. In a car, sure: But then the screen
size is an issue.
Generally I avoid multi-function devices unless the functions are a
natural fit. And GPS+PDA seems unnatural, since neither benefits from
the other in any material way.
Phil |
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