| Author |
Message |
Jarod (the puppy)
Guest
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 Posted:
Wed Nov 30, 2005 9:08 am Post subject:
Re: Garmin 96C - Daylight saving time error! |
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"DF" == "Doug Forster" writes:
DF> > Jarod seems to be struggling with the technology. He probably
DF> > did not have the zone and DST set correctly.
DF>
DF> I live just across the ditch from Jarod (NZ) and I am quite
DF> certain my 60CS is set up correctly and it definitely does NOT
DF> change to DST at the correct time. I think Garmin have a bug.
DF>
DF> Cheers
DF> Doug Forster
HURRAY!
Someone else who agrees with me!
Thanks!
Oh, and kia ora Doug!
--
========
Thanks.....
Jarod |
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Juri Munkki
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Nov 30, 2005 4:50 pm Post subject:
Re: Garmin 96C - Daylight saving time error! |
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In article <kIxif.4120$vH5.231546@news.xtra.co.nz> "Doug Forster" <nospam@nowhere.com> writes:
| Quote: | I live just across the ditch from Jarod (NZ) and I am quite certain my 60CS
is set up correctly and it definitely does NOT change to DST at the correct
time. I think Garmin have a bug.
|
I also found that on the 60C, the time of sunset (and sunrise etc?)
will be calculated incorrectly on the day when the clocks were changed,
if the GPS is set to adjust daylight savings time automatically. If
it's on manual, the time is correct.
I have reported this to Garmin... I haven't heard back from them.
--
Juri Munkki - http://www.iki.fi/jmunkki - Windsurfing: Faster than the wind. |
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Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Dec 02, 2005 4:10 pm Post subject:
Re: Garmin 96C - Daylight saving time error! |
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On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 08:08:51 GMT, "Jarod (the puppy)"
<dog_kennel_alias@zeta.org.au> wrote:
| Quote: | "HP" == "Heinrich Pfeifer" writes:
HP> > Which is rediculous! If I want to know which timezone I am in,
HP> > I look where I am and look at a timezone map. Isn't that
HP> > precisely what a GPS is capable of?
HP
HP> no.
HP
HP> Imagine you are very close to a time zone border. You will not
HP> want the GPS receiver time reading jump forward and backward,
HP> caused by the wandering GPS error.
Unless you are moving back and forth accross the line, why would the
time zone "zone" change?
HP> The OP had another problem: the receiver says it will change
HP> automatically to daylight saving time, but it appears not to
HP> know the rules for all countries.
Correct.
So I think it is very neglegent of Garmin to include something with
no explination of how it works.
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How much detail on ignition theory is in your car's owner's
manual? |
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Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Dec 02, 2005 4:14 pm Post subject:
Re: Garmin 96C - Daylight saving time error! |
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On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 08:11:36 GMT, "Jarod (the puppy)"
<dog_kennel_alias@zeta.org.au> wrote:
| Quote: | "PHC" == "Peter H. Coffin" writes:
PHC> On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 16:33:09 +0100, Heinrich Pfeifer wrote:
PHC> > The OP had another problem: the receiver says it will change
PHC> > automatically to daylight saving time, but it appears not to
PHC> > know the rules for all countries.
PHC
PHC> Additionally, the GPS will assume that the rules for DST changes
PHC> will be constant unless updated by firmware. Those rules
PHC> (covering what days the changes back and forth) change be
PHC> changed by governing bodies.
PHC
As true as that statement is, it is mollycock.
As much as I hate Windoze, their OS has enough "intelligance" (cough)
to know when the daylight saving times come in.
|
Windows has no idea what's going on in e.g. Indiana, Arizona,
etc. It's only capable of calculating the appropriate date and making
a gross change. Why do you think it tells you what it's done and then
tells you to check for yourself if it's right?
| Quote: |
Any "changes" by governing bodies could be accomodated in software
updates by Garmin.
It won't/wouldn't be rocket science. |
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David Lee
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:08 pm Post subject:
Re: Garmin 96C - Daylight saving time error! |
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kashe@sonic.net wrote ...
| Quote: | PHC> Additionally, the GPS will assume that the rules for DST changes
PHC> will be constant unless updated by firmware. Those rules
PHC> (covering what days the changes back and forth) change be
PHC> changed by governing bodies.
PHC
As true as that statement is, it is mollycock.
As much as I hate Windoze, their OS has enough "intelligance" (cough)
to know when the daylight saving times come in.
Windows has no idea what's going on in e.g. Indiana, Arizona,
etc. It's only capable of calculating the appropriate date and making
a gross change. Why do you think it tells you what it's done and then
tells you to check for yourself if it's right?
|
That's rubbish! Dates for advancing and retarding the clock are fixed for
any given country. If they weren't then there would be potential accounting
nightmares each time the country's clocks changed. The majority of
countries in the northern hemisphere change their clocks on the last Sundays
in March and October although DST commences on the first Sunday in April in
North America (except for Hawaii and Arizona which don't observe DST -
although the Navajo parts of Arizona do). There are other exceptions but it
only requires a small lookup table. Windows never asks me to confirm
daylight saving time changes and these are also handled correctly (at least
for me in the UK) by my Garmin etrex and Vista receivers.
David |
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Meindert Sprang
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Dec 03, 2005 12:17 am Post subject:
Re: Garmin 96C - Daylight saving time error! |
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"David Lee" <davidlee_malvern@dont.use.this.bit.hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:M6ednd45xeP10Q3eRVnyvQ@eclipse.net.uk...
| Quote: | Windows never asks me to confirm
daylight saving time changes and these are also handled correctly (at
least
for me in the UK) by my Garmin etrex and Vista receivers.
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Depends on your version. Every windows before W2000 did. (95, 98, ME, NT4).
Meindert |
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Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Dec 04, 2005 5:08 pm Post subject:
Re: Garmin 96C - Daylight saving time error! |
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On Fri, 2 Dec 2005 13:30:24 -0000, "David Lee"
<davidlee_malvern@dont.use.this.bit.hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | kashe@sonic.net wrote ...
PHC> Additionally, the GPS will assume that the rules for DST changes
PHC> will be constant unless updated by firmware. Those rules
PHC> (covering what days the changes back and forth) change be
PHC> changed by governing bodies.
PHC
As true as that statement is, it is mollycock.
As much as I hate Windoze, their OS has enough "intelligance" (cough)
to know when the daylight saving times come in.
Windows has no idea what's going on in e.g. Indiana, Arizona,
etc. It's only capable of calculating the appropriate date and making
a gross change. Why do you think it tells you what it's done and then
tells you to check for yourself if it's right?
That's rubbish!
|
Explain exactly why it's rubbish or retract your baseless
assertion. With an apology for your rudeness.
| Quote: | Dates for advancing and retarding the clock are fixed for
any given country. If they weren't then there would be potential accounting
nightmares each time the country's clocks changed. The majority of
countries in the northern hemisphere change their clocks on the last Sundays
in March and October although DST commences on the first Sunday in April in
North America (except for Hawaii and Arizona which don't observe DST -
although the Navajo parts of Arizona do). There are other exceptions but it
only requires a small lookup table.
|
Perhaps, but it's not implemented. Please provide such to
describe in detail, including all required coordinates, following
county lines, the scheme for Indiana, where different counties have
different observance of DST
| Quote: | Windows never asks me to confirm
daylight saving time changes and these are also handled correctly (at least
for me in the UK) by my Garmin etrex and Vista receivers.
|
My windows (both XT and XT Media Center) do so.
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David Lee
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Dec 04, 2005 5:08 pm Post subject:
Re: Garmin 96C - Daylight saving time error! |
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kashe@sonic.net wrote...
Ooh! What a touchy little girl!
| Quote: | Explain exactly why it's rubbish or retract your baseless
assertion. With an apology for your rudeness.
|
Certainly not!
| Quote: | Dates for advancing and retarding the clock are fixed for
any given country. If they weren't then there would be potential
accounting
nightmares each time the country's clocks changed. The majority of
countries in the northern hemisphere change their clocks on the last
Sundays
in March and October although DST commences on the first Sunday in April
in
North America (except for Hawaii and Arizona which don't observe DST -
although the Navajo parts of Arizona do). There are other exceptions but
it
only requires a small lookup table.
Perhaps, but it's not implemented. Please provide such to
describe in detail, including all required coordinates, following
county lines, the scheme for Indiana, where different counties have
different observance of DST
|
Well there's no accounting for state sponsored stupidity! However even I,
as an Englishman, know that a law was passed last April implementing DST
statewide in Indiana starting from next April - the only issue then remains
where the boundary between Eastern and Central timezones runs.
Anyway it's your own fault if you can't set up Windows correctly for your
own location since I would expect you to know what time it is and hence
which timezone you are in! It would be totally pointless, confusing and a
waste of effort to list options for every single state of country - better
to list standard timezones and exceptions where DST is handled differently
from the norm. For Indiana Windows gives you the option of Central or
Eastern time (with or without automatic daylight saving) or Indiana (East) -
with daylight saving totally disabled. Likewise for Hawaii and Arizona
Windows "knows" that daylight saving is not used. I assume that for the
Navajo regions of Arizona you would select Mountain Time (ie GMT -7 with
Daylight Saving).
| Quote: | Windows never asks me to confirm
daylight saving time changes and these are also handled correctly (at
least
for me in the UK) by my Garmin etrex and Vista receivers.
My windows (both XT and XT Media Center) do so.
|
I have never been prompted to accept daylight saving by any version of
Windows. However I always have "Automatically adjust clock for daylight
saving changes" selected and have never tried running with this option
deselected. It may be that if you haven't selected "Auto" you will be
prompted for the change - otherwise I can't see the point of having special
cases for places such as Indiana where the Auto option is disabled - you
would simply select the relevant timezone and disable automatic correction.
David |
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Jarod (the puppy)
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:08 am Post subject:
Re: Garmin 96C - Daylight saving time error! |
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"k" == "kashe@sonic.net" writes:
k> >So I think it is very neglegent of Garmin to include something
k> >with no explination of how it works.
k>
k> How much detail on ignition theory is in your car's owner's
k> manual?
Well, it tells me that if I turn the key to START, the car will
start.
The documentation for the GPS doesn't mention the AUTO setting at
all, so I think you are comparing apples and oranges.
--
========
Thanks.....
Jarod |
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Alan Morris
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Dec 06, 2005 1:08 am Post subject:
Re: Garmin 96C - Daylight saving time error! |
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"David Lee" <davidlee_malvern@dont.use.this.bit.hotmail.com> wrote
| Quote: | I have never been prompted to accept daylight saving by any version of
Windows. However I always have "Automatically adjust clock for daylight
saving changes" selected and have never tried running with this option
deselected. It may be that if you haven't selected "Auto" you will be
prompted for the change - otherwise I can't see the point of having
special
cases for places such as Indiana where the Auto option is disabled - you
would simply select the relevant timezone and disable automatic
correction. |
David I've disabled this windows option for a few years now as it's a major
problem for some folk.
1. I have multiple bootable partitions of windows on the same machine. When
the clocks change, windows changes the time for every partition, requiring
manual changing the PC clock.
2. M$ has a problem with file dates. I use Psion computers that can
efficiently (a word not know to windows) change their clocks as one moves
between time zones, so that if travelling the 'wrong' way so that time goes
backwards, ones file dates are kept constant. i.e. if using more than one
computer and amending files, the Psion OS knows what file is really the last
to be written to.
Windows can't keep track of this. I have however heard recently that M$
have produced a fix in XP only.
Also if keeping a GPS tracklog. How do you cope with this when the same
hour occurs twice once every year?
Alan Morris |
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David Lee
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Dec 06, 2005 4:38 pm Post subject:
Re: Garmin 96C - Daylight saving time error! |
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Alan Morris wrote
| Quote: | David I've disabled this windows option for a few years now as it's a
major
problem for some folk.
1. I have multiple bootable partitions of windows on the same machine.
When
the clocks change, windows changes the time for every partition, requiring
manual changing the PC clock.
2. M$ has a problem with file dates. I use Psion computers that can
efficiently (a word not know to windows) change their clocks as one moves
between time zones, so that if travelling the 'wrong' way so that time
goes
backwards, ones file dates are kept constant. i.e. if using more than one
computer and amending files, the Psion OS knows what file is really the
last
to be written to.
Windows can't keep track of this. I have however heard recently that M$
have produced a fix in XP only.
Also if keeping a GPS tracklog. How do you cope with this when the same
hour occurs twice once every year?
|
That's a problem with any daylight saving system and nothing to do with
Windows.
M$0ft attempts to get around the problem with file timestamps but
unfortunately not in a consistent manner between versions and so possibly
makes things worse. I believe that XP stamps files stored to HDD according
to the current basic uncorrected timezone time and then adjusts ALL file
times when these are displayed. This means that relative times are
preserved (so you never get repeated times or missing hours) but they ALL
shift by one hour when daylight saving starts or finishes - even files
created before the change in DST. OTOH I think that Win9x does the
opposite - ie never applies daylight saving to timestamps. The details may
not be correct but the principle of inconsistency between Windows versions
is definitely true! However inspecting files on my HDD from DOS booted from
a floppy together with NTFSDOS shows files saved with daylight saving in
operation to have DOS timestamps saved as uncorrected GMT.
The situation gets worse with floppy disks and USB memories etc - files
copied from HDD will be copied with the currently displayed time and
timestamps on these drives are not corrected for DST. So the same old file
copied from HDD to FDD before and after the start of DST be copied with
datestamps differing by one hour. Also a file copied from hard drive to
floppy will initially have the same timestamp as the original but these will
differ by an hour following a change in DST.
I only have one partition on my HDD so I don't know whether time
corrections are made only to the boot partition or to all internal hard
drive partitions nor indeed how Windows deals with external hard drives.
According to M$0ft KB there are also inconsistencies between Windows
versions as to whether file timestamps on files stored on one computer are
corrected for DST when viewed on another one in another timezone.
It's a minefield!
David |
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David Lee
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Dec 06, 2005 4:50 pm Post subject:
Re: Garmin 96C - Daylight saving time error! |
|
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kashe@sonic.net wrote:
| Quote: | Dates for advancing and retarding the clock are fixed for
any given country. If they weren't then there would be potential
accounting
nightmares each time the country's clocks changed. The majority of
countries in the northern hemisphere change their clocks on the last
Sundays
in March and October although DST commences on the first Sunday in April
in
North America (except for Hawaii and Arizona which don't observe DST -
although the Navajo parts of Arizona do). There are other exceptions but
it
only requires a small lookup table.
Perhaps, but it's not implemented. Please provide such to
describe in detail, including all required coordinates, following
county lines, the scheme for Indiana, where different counties have
different observance of DST
|
The "lookup table" is stored in the registry under
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Time Zones.
Actually there is one registry entry for each timezone.
If you actually wanted individual named entries for all the counties in
Indiana instead of using the built-in options then you can add registry keys
for each county so that options will appear in the time/date timezone
dialogue box. There is a Microsoft resource kit utility available to do
this without fiddling with the registry - tzedit. You can download it from
several places on the web - you may find the version you get is from the
Win98 resource kit but it works with all versions including XP. You can
edit, add or delete timezone entries as you wish, enable/disable the auto
option, change start/end dates for DST etc.
David |
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Walter Wright
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Dec 06, 2005 5:08 pm Post subject:
Re: Garmin 96C - Daylight saving time error! |
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"Alan Morris" <news4x4alan@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4394da09$2_4@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
| Quote: | I use Psion computers that can
efficiently (a word not know to windows) change their clocks as one moves
between time zones, so that if travelling the 'wrong' way so that time
goes
backwards, ones file dates are kept constant. i.e. if using more than one
computer and amending files, the Psion OS knows what file is really the
last
to be written to.
|
[becoming slightly OT]
I've been a Psion supporter for a long time (just buried my S5 after more
than seven years solid service). However, if EPOC is so smart about DST, how
come the first Psiwin Backup after the BST->GMT change always thinks that
*every* file on the Psion has changed and needs to be backed up, even system
applications which never changed from the year dot?
[/OT]
Walter |
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Alan Morris
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Dec 07, 2005 8:19 am Post subject:
Re: Garmin 96C - Daylight saving time error! |
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|
"Walter Wright" <nonews@isgoodnews.co.uk> wrote in message
news:439592ea_1@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
| Quote: |
"Alan Morris" <news4x4alan@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4394da09$2_4@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
I use Psion computers that can
efficiently (a word not know to windows) change their clocks as one
moves
between time zones, so that if travelling the 'wrong' way so that time
goes
backwards, ones file dates are kept constant. i.e. if using more than
one
computer and amending files, the Psion OS knows what file is really the
last
to be written to.
[becoming slightly OT]
I've been a Psion supporter for a long time (just buried my S5 after more
than seven years solid service). However, if EPOC is so smart about DST,
how
come the first Psiwin Backup after the BST->GMT change always thinks that
*every* file on the Psion has changed and needs to be backed up, even
system
applications which never changed from the year dot?
[/OT]
|
Walter that is because windows does not handle file date/times correctly.
(Apart from the rescent fix I mentioned for XP)
Windows sets the time wrong by an hour in files backedup, by PsiWin. So as
PsiWin checks for changes in file date/times, it decides that the file has
changed.
To stop this I don't use daylight saving on windows.
Back on topic, I always keep my GPSs on GMT, even when in Europe. But as a
radio ham, using GMT is not a problem for me, as I need to use GMT.
Alan. |
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Walter Wright
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Dec 07, 2005 3:58 pm Post subject:
Re: Garmin 96C - Daylight saving time error! |
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"Alan Morris" <news4x4alan@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
news:43964826$1_4@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
| Quote: | Walter that is because windows does not handle file date/times correctly.
(Apart from the rescent fix I mentioned for XP)
Windows sets the time wrong by an hour in files backedup, by PsiWin. So
as
PsiWin checks for changes in file date/times, it decides that the file has
changed.
|
Yes, I realised when I was typing the post that ultimately Psiwin relies on
the underlying O/S for its timestamp information. I suppose it could have
maintained a private database of dates/times instead, but I suppose its not
really much of a hardship to have everything backed up once a year. It was
annoying as it always seemed to decide to do that when I was in a hurry ;-)
Walter |
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