| Author |
Message |
Guest
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 Posted:
Tue Nov 22, 2005 1:08 am Post subject:
convert GIS maps to Garmin format? |
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I would like to take the US Forest Service maps and somehow download
them into the Garmin 276c. Is such a thing possible, or are we stuck
with the horribly bland Garmin Mapsource.
If the answer to above is no, then can anyone recommend a hardware GPS
platform that lets us pick and choose from more than the one
proprietary map vendor. For example, I would love to download the
National Geographic topo maps to a GPS unit.
My application is mostly offroads, on trails well marked by Forest
Service maps but displaying at very low res, if at all on Garmin Topo
West.
thx,
tony |
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Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 22, 2005 1:08 am Post subject:
Re: convert GIS maps to Garmin format? |
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iamtonyz@gmail.com schrieb:
| Quote: | I would like to take the US Forest Service maps and somehow download
them into the Garmin 276c. Is such a thing possible, or are we stuck
with the horribly bland Garmin Mapsource.
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Which format are these maps? |
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zulutime
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 22, 2005 7:49 am Post subject:
Re: convert GIS maps to Garmin format? |
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iamtonyz@gmail.com wrote:
| Quote: | I would like to take the US Forest Service maps and somehow download
them into the Garmin 276c. Is such a thing possible, or are we stuck
with the horribly bland Garmin Mapsource.
If the answer to above is no, then can anyone recommend a hardware GPS
platform that lets us pick and choose from more than the one
proprietary map vendor. For example, I would love to download the
National Geographic topo maps to a GPS unit.
My application is mostly offroads, on trails well marked by Forest
Service maps but displaying at very low res, if at all on Garmin Topo
West.
thx,
tony
|
Compared to Garmin's US Topo, USFS Sierra NF printed map has less
detail and lacks contour lines. The Sierra map is 1:127,000. Garmin
also publishes more detailed 1:24,000 topos for limited areas. Because
Garmin's maps are vectorized and scaleable they are much more useable
than a raster scan would be.
Most USFS maps are in the range 1:100,000 to 1:150,000 so they can't
depict as much detail.
See the recent thread on Mexico maps and you will see that Garmin is a
"platform that lets us pick and choose from more than the one
proprietary map vendor."
HTH |
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Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 22, 2005 5:08 pm Post subject:
Re: convert GIS maps to Garmin format? |
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I do not know the format of the USFS maps... I am new to all this
digital cartography. But there is digital vector maps for California
online http://casil.ucdavis.edu/mapsurfer/ for example.
HTH, thanks for the response. I didn't realize that was the situation
vis-a-vis USFS vs Garmin. But when I look at my USFS map, I see much
more detail wrt fireroads... e.g. 7N35 markings... I see none of that
on the Garmin map, and good detail on the USFS map.
Am I missing something??
thx,
tony |
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Phil Wheeler
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 22, 2005 5:08 pm Post subject:
Re: convert GIS maps to Garmin format? |
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iamtonyz@gmail.com wrote:
| Quote: | I do not know the format of the USFS maps... I am new to all this
digital cartography. But there is digital vector maps for California
online http://casil.ucdavis.edu/mapsurfer/ for example.
HTH, thanks for the response. I didn't realize that was the situation
vis-a-vis USFS vs Garmin. But when I look at my USFS map, I see much
more detail wrt fireroads... e.g. 7N35 markings... I see none of that
on the Garmin map, and good detail on the USFS map.
Am I missing something??
|
If by "Garmin map" you mean the 24K Topo series, they are based on USGS
7.5' (24,000:1) maps .. which do not show the USFS road number info. I
believe the same is true for the less-detailed Garmin US Topo (which are
similar to 100,000:1 USGS topos in detail.
OTOH .. the USFS maps do not show elevation contours, at least the ones
I have do not.
USFS and USGS seem to live in different worlds. I once reported a lost
hiker (later found) to the Forest Service in terms of approx Lat-Long
(since I was carrying a GPS) and they said that meant nothing to them,
that I would have to provide the road number as in 7N35 :)
Phil |
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Jack Erbes
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 22, 2005 5:08 pm Post subject:
Re: convert GIS maps to Garmin format? |
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iamtonyz@gmail.com wrote:
| Quote: | I would like to take the US Forest Service maps and somehow download
them into the Garmin 276c. Is such a thing possible, or are we stuck
with the horribly bland Garmin Mapsource.
If the answer to above is no, then can anyone recommend a hardware GPS
platform that lets us pick and choose from more than the one
proprietary map vendor. For example, I would love to download the
National Geographic topo maps to a GPS unit.
|
I can't answer the question on the 276C.
For other hardware, if you want a ruggedized, waterproof, self contained
for power, handheld, I don't think there is anything available in
consumer grade GPS receivers that does not need optional at extra cost
proprietary maps for topo mapping.
Some small progress has been made in people producing their own maps in
the proprietary formats used by Garmin and Magellan but it is not to the
point where anyone can easily make their own maps for those brands in
lieu of buying them.
Last I knew, most reviewers considered the Magellan MapSend Topo 3D maps
to be a little better than the Garmin topo maps. That is "better" as
determined by comparing the details to that on the USGS 1:24K topo
quads. Neither of those packages offer all the details that are on the
USGS 1:24K topo maps, they are more like 1:50K maps vectorized and with
some additional detail like more contour lines added.
The USGS 1:24K topo maps are, for most of us here in the U.S. anyway,
the standard of comparison for topo mapping. I believe it is also the
mapping data that is the basis for the vectorized commercial topo
mapping packages offered by Garmin and Magellan.
The USGS Digital Raster Graphics (DRG) maps are publicly available
bitmapped raster images of the 1:24K topos. Some larger scale (1:50?
1:100?) DRG topos are available also. There are numerous sources for
downloading them for free. They are produced with tax dollars and my
guess is that someone decided in the past that the information is public
information for that reason.
You can use the free DRGs with Ozi Explorer, Ozi Explorer-CE, Fugawi,
and a number of other commercial or free navigation softwares. That
puts the DRG maps on PCs, laptops, and PDAs.
Using the DRGs for navigation on a handheld PDA requires a PDA with CF
or SD card GPS receiver and service life is generally limited to a few
hours by battery life. Sustained use starts getting more practical if
there is a external power source (car, boat, motorcycle, ATV, etc.)
available. Having external power also lets you consider using external
(to the PDA) cabled or Bluetooth GPS receivers.
The biggest drawbacks in hardware devices that can use the free DRGs is
that of matching the "rugged, waterproof, battery powered, etc..."
features of the Garmin and Magellan lines. If you can live with these
drawbacks and with dealing with more bits and pieces of hardware, the
choices myriad (PDA brands, GPS receiver types, etc.). And the mapping
detail will be better.
I have an older iPAQ 3765 with an external "mouse style" or cabled GPS
receiver (Altina GGM-308). That works well on my ATV. I have to make
provisions to provide shock cushioning and rain proofing but it is
practical enough.
I use Ozi-CE for a software for the USGS DRGs on the iPAQ. The DRGs
need to be run through a one time conversion process on a PC to create
smaller/better map data file for Ozi-CE on the handheld. But with that
done, I have a portable nav system with raster images of 1:24K topo
maps. And I can probably get DRG map images for the entire U.S. for free.
I use the same hardware on my motorcycle for road use. For that I have
full featured autorouting navigation software package (Tom Tom 5
Navigator) that comes with its own proprietary mapping package for the
U.S. and Canada.
If you already have a PDA an inexpensive way to experiment with using
DRG raster mapping would be to try Maptech's Outdoor Navigator:
https://outdoornavigator.maptech.com/outdoornavigator/index.cfm
That will give you a good feel for the raster image mapping products and
it includes both USGS topo mapping and NOAA marine charting. That is a
hard deal to beat IMHO.
Jack
--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jackerbes at adelphia dot net
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine.com) |
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Frank
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:51 am Post subject:
Re: convert GIS maps to Garmin format? |
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:: You can use the free DRGs with Ozi Explorer, Ozi Explorer-CE, Fugawi,
:: and a number of other commercial or free navigation softwares. That
:: puts the DRG maps on PCs, laptops, and PDAs.
::
:: Using the DRGs for navigation on a handheld PDA requires a PDA with
:: CF
:: or SD card GPS receiver and service life is generally limited to a
:: few hours by battery life. Sustained use starts getting more
:: practical if there is a external power source (car, boat,
:: motorcycle, ATV, etc.) available. Having external power also lets
:: you consider using external (to the PDA) cabled or Bluetooth GPS
:: receivers.
::
Does anyone know of any free, add-your-own-map programs for the Palm? FWIW,
my Palm has a battery life (guessing here) of ten times or more what my Ipaq
does. I guess that I could look at Dale's site, duh. :-)
Frank |
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Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Nov 23, 2005 1:08 am Post subject:
Re: convert GIS maps to Garmin format? |
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also, unfortunately, the 24K topo USFS maps are available, at least
from Garmin, only as US National Parks... if you're operating outside
those small areas, you're back to the 100K topo maps... yech. I think
the PDA is the way to go... Garmin map quality on land has alot to
catch up on. For water, it's quite decent.... there I was pretty happy
with the Garmin Blue Charts in the Caribbean waters. |
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Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Nov 23, 2005 1:08 am Post subject:
Re: convert GIS maps to Garmin format? |
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Jack, thank you very much...exactly what I needed to know. Looks like
to use the best of what's available on the PC, which is better than
what is avail for the proprietary handheld (e.g. Garmin), you have to
use a small PC, e.g. PDA... That is what I will be working on.
Your hint on how to convert PC maps to PDA maps is esp useful... thanks
for that. |
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tbl
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Nov 23, 2005 1:08 am Post subject:
Re: convert GIS maps to Garmin format? |
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On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 16:22:10 GMT, Phil Wheeler
<w6tuh-ng4@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | If by "Garmin map" you mean the 24K Topo series, they are based on USGS
7.5' (24,000:1) maps .. which do not show the USFS road number info. I
believe the same is true for the less-detailed Garmin US Topo (which are
similar to 100,000:1 USGS topos in detail.
OTOH .. the USFS maps do not show elevation contours, at least the ones
I have do not.
USFS and USGS seem to live in different worlds. I once reported a lost
hiker (later found) to the Forest Service in terms of approx Lat-Long
(since I was carrying a GPS) and they said that meant nothing to them,
that I would have to provide the road number as in 7N35 :)
|
From a USGS Publication titled:
"Single-Edition Quadrangle Maps":
******
In August 1993, the U.S. Geological Survey's (USGS) National
Mapping Division and the U.S. Department of Agriculture's
Forest Service signed an Interagency Agreement to begin a
singleedition joint mapping program. This agreement
established the coordination for producing and maintaining
single-edition primary series topographic maps for
quadrangles containing National Forest System lands. The
joint mapping program saves money by eliminating duplication
of effort by the agencies and results in a more frequent
revision cycle for quadrangles containing national forests.
Maps are revised on the basis of jointly developed standards
and contain normal features mapped by the USGS, as well as
additional features required for efficient management of
National Forest System lands. Singleedition maps look
slightly different but meet the content, accuracy, and
quality criteria of other USGS products.
*******
If that's what I've been looking at recently, the topo lines
are barely visible. It looks to me like a FS map with
tokenized GS features. |
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Phil Wheeler
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Nov 23, 2005 7:33 am Post subject:
Re: convert GIS maps to Garmin format? |
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tbl wrote:
| Quote: | On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 16:22:10 GMT, Phil Wheeler
w6tuh-ng4@yahoo.com> wrote:
If by "Garmin map" you mean the 24K Topo series, they are based on USGS
7.5' (24,000:1) maps .. which do not show the USFS road number info. I
believe the same is true for the less-detailed Garmin US Topo (which are
similar to 100,000:1 USGS topos in detail.
OTOH .. the USFS maps do not show elevation contours, at least the ones
I have do not.
USFS and USGS seem to live in different worlds. I once reported a lost
hiker (later found) to the Forest Service in terms of approx Lat-Long
(since I was carrying a GPS) and they said that meant nothing to them,
that I would have to provide the road number as in 7N35 :)
From a USGS Publication titled:
"Single-Edition Quadrangle Maps":
******
In August 1993, the U.S. Geological Survey's (USGS) National
Mapping Division and the U.S. Department of Agriculture's
Forest Service signed an Interagency Agreement to begin a
singleedition joint mapping program. This agreement
established the coordination for producing and maintaining
single-edition primary series topographic maps for
quadrangles containing National Forest System lands. The
joint mapping program saves money by eliminating duplication
of effort by the agencies and results in a more frequent
revision cycle for quadrangles containing national forests.
Maps are revised on the basis of jointly developed standards
and contain normal features mapped by the USGS, as well as
additional features required for efficient management of
National Forest System lands. Singleedition maps look
slightly different but meet the content, accuracy, and
quality criteria of other USGS products.
*******
|
Hey .. they are Government agencies, given to politically correct
statements. Need I say more?
| Quote: | If that's what I've been looking at recently, the topo lines
are barely visible. It looks to me like a FS map with
tokenized GS features.
|
No big surpise. "Token" is the key. |
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Phil Wheeler
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Nov 23, 2005 7:36 am Post subject:
Re: convert GIS maps to Garmin format? |
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iamtonyz@gmail.com wrote:
| Quote: | also, unfortunately, the 24K topo USFS maps are available, at least
from Garmin, only as US National Parks...
|
Actually, that is not true, at least in So California. Areas covered (in
addition to NPs) include
o San Bernardino National Forest (including San Jacinto area)
o Mojave National Preserve (a really large area)
o Santa Monica Mtns |
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Jack Erbes
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Nov 23, 2005 8:39 am Post subject:
Re: convert GIS maps to Garmin format? |
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iamtonyz@gmail.com wrote:
| Quote: | I do not know the format of the USFS maps... I am new to all this
digital cartography. But there is digital vector maps for California
online http://casil.ucdavis.edu/mapsurfer/ for example.
HTH, thanks for the response. I didn't realize that was the situation
vis-a-vis USFS vs Garmin. But when I look at my USFS map, I see much
more detail wrt fireroads... e.g. 7N35 markings... I see none of that
on the Garmin map, and good detail on the USFS map.
Am I missing something??
|
I don't think those are vector maps at that link, they are raster maps.
I think what you call USFS maps are actually USGS 1:24K topo maps. Do
they not have any markings on the collar to identify the scale,
quadrangle name, etc.?
If you go to the link above and uncheck all the boxes except the three
that start with "DRG" you can look at a USGS 1:24K DRG topo map. Keep
zooming in and and compare that detail to what you see on your "USFS
maps" and I think you will find them to be the same.
Those maps have had the collars trimmed and are quilted together. If
you look along the boundaries where they are quilted you will see areas
where details do match up quite perfectly, you would see the same
difference if you had two paper maps and compared them.
Jack
--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jackerbes at adelphia dot net
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine.com) |
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Jack Erbes
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Nov 23, 2005 8:55 am Post subject:
Re: convert GIS maps to Garmin format? |
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Frank wrote:
| Quote: | Does anyone know of any free, add-your-own-map programs for the Palm? FWIW,
my Palm has a battery life (guessing here) of ten times or more what my Ipaq
does. I guess that I could look at Dale's site, duh. :-)
|
I didn't find a program for the Palm, but Outdoor Navigator will run on
Palms.
I have both a Palm T3 too, I gave up on using the T3 outdoors as it
blacks out in direct light. Nice display but useless unless it is well
shaded or pretty dark.
I think you will find that, when you start using the Palm with full
backlight and a SDIO GPS receiver, your estimate of useful battery life
is a little high. It might be better than the iPAQ but not much better.
You would need an external power source for a cabled GPS receiver (that
won't get its power from the Palm), so you might as well run them both
off of a external power source.
Jack
--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jackerbes at adelphia dot net
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine.com) |
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Jack Erbes
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:08 am Post subject:
Re: convert GIS maps to Garmin format? |
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iamtonyz@gmail.com wrote:
| Quote: | Jack, thank you very much...exactly what I needed to know. Looks like
to use the best of what's available on the PC, which is better than
what is avail for the proprietary handheld (e.g. Garmin), you have to
use a small PC, e.g. PDA... That is what I will be working on.
Your hint on how to convert PC maps to PDA maps is esp useful... thanks
for that.
|
That conversion process is described on the OziExlorer web site
http://www.oziexplorer.com/.
Try out the trial versions before you buy, they don't recommend you buy
without trying it first. I suppose that means not refunds. :>)
I only purchased OziExplorer-CE, it says that you should have
OziExplorer (for the PC) also but I did not find it necessary.
I think buying the PC version is not needed unless you want to build
routes on the PC (for transfer to a handheld running Ozi-CE) or to scan
images and calibrate them to make your own maps.
I used it on some ATV rides and found it pretty handy to have. I
recorded tracks of some of old woods roads and trails near my home. I
was going to buy the PC version too so I could edit my map images to
show additional roads and trails but I have not got around to doing that
yet.
I used the trial version of Ozi Explorer to do the initial conversion on
the USGS DRGs, it uses the calibration data that is provided along with
the USGS map image files. Then that file resulting from that was
converted again for use with Ozi-CE.
I did that some time back, the process may have changed a little since
them but I don't think it has.
Jack
--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jackerbes at adelphia dot net
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine.com) |
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