| Author |
Message |
Garry W
Guest
|
 Posted:
Tue Nov 29, 2005 9:08 am Post subject:
Q's about Street Atlas 2006 |
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|
I'm looking at Street Atlas 2006 Plus description, and I am considering
buying it.
This is a Big Thing because I am one of the curmudgeons who, while respecting
Mr. Delorme's decision to buck the tide and the market and implement a user
interface unique unto himself, absolutely could not stand the resulting
products.
So I am still using a 1999 version of Street Atlas. But I starting to find
myself in need of a phone directory that's less than seven years old. Delorme
seems to be the only consumer-level company I can find that's producing one.
So I might need to give Delorme some money, for the first time in years. I
had a few questions first that I haven't been able to find answers to...
- Does Street Atlas still have an "open" license? That is, can I use the same
license key to install SA2006 Plus on both my laptop and my desktop?
- Is the data disk still optional? That is, can data be copied onto a hard
drive and the DVD left behind, or are you required to keep the DVD (and a DVD
drive) with you?
- Has the user interface started migrating back to doing things in the
Windows style? You know, pull-down menus, dialog boxes, speed keys, etc? I
see some hints of that in the screen shots on the Delorme web site.
thanks much for your help,
Garry |
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El Alumbrado
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 29, 2005 9:08 am Post subject:
Re: Q's about Street Atlas 2006 |
|
|
"Garry W" <ListMail@extremelyserious.org> wrote in message
news:coblo1dc2k0pvcr8bo4p7usttsnk16804r@4ax.com...
| Quote: | I'm looking at Street Atlas 2006 Plus description, and I am considering
buying it.
This is a Big Thing because I am one of the curmudgeons who, while
respecting
Mr. Delorme's decision to buck the tide and the market and implement a
user
interface unique unto himself, absolutely could not stand the resulting
products.
|
I agree. The mapping engine inherent in Delorme products is superb, and the
feature set is extensive, but the human interface is atrocious.
| Quote: | - Does Street Atlas still have an "open" license? That is, can I use the
same
license key to install SA2006 Plus on both my laptop and my desktop?
|
I use the same copy of Street Atlas on both my desktop and laptop machines.
| Quote: | - Is the data disk still optional? That is, can data be copied onto a hard
drive and the DVD left behind, or are you required to keep the DVD (and a
DVD
drive) with you?
|
Yes, map data can be installed onto the hard drive. The CD/DVD is not
required for day-to-day operations.
| Quote: | - Has the user interface started migrating back to doing things in the
Windows style? You know, pull-down menus, dialog boxes, speed keys, etc? I
see some hints of that in the screen shots on the Delorme web site.
|
No, the human interface is still "different". I would like more consistent
control paradigm as well as more control over the placement of information,
fonts and sizes, background colors, etc.
El Alumbrado
"Civis Texanus Sum" |
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Alan Burnstine
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 29, 2005 5:08 pm Post subject:
Re: Q's about Street Atlas 2006 |
|
|
Traveling wrote:
| Quote: | I agree, it took some time to get adjusted the new interface. I
actually returned the first upgrade that had only the new interface
because I thought the learning curve would be too long to learn. Then
they issued the next version and this had the old interface as
default. You had to select the new interface. It was then that I played
with it, and as you stated, it grew on me. I now wouldn't want
to give it up.
Please check http://forum.delorme.com/ and you'll find that there is
a way to turn off the new interface.
|
I am a regular participant at the forum, and there is no way to turn off the
new interface. Are you thinking about the new toolbar? That I believe can
be turned off, but there is no way to return to the old SA1-SA9 interface.
Alan |
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Traveling
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 29, 2005 5:08 pm Post subject:
Re: Q's about Street Atlas 2006 |
|
|
Delorme has a very useful users group that's accessible from their site.
And I understand, you now have the option to "turn off" the interface
that you do not like. I believe it's been available in the 2005,2006
versions
Traveling
"Garry W" <ListMail@extremelyserious.org> wrote in message
news:coblo1dc2k0pvcr8bo4p7usttsnk16804r@4ax.com...
| Quote: | I'm looking at Street Atlas 2006 Plus description, and I am
considering
buying it.
This is a Big Thing because I am one of the curmudgeons who, while
respecting
Mr. Delorme's decision to buck the tide and the market and implement a
user
interface unique unto himself, absolutely could not stand the
resulting
products.
So I am still using a 1999 version of Street Atlas. But I starting to
find
myself in need of a phone directory that's less than seven years old.
Delorme
seems to be the only consumer-level company I can find that's
producing one.
So I might need to give Delorme some money, for the first time in
years. I
had a few questions first that I haven't been able to find answers
to...
- Does Street Atlas still have an "open" license? That is, can I use
the same
license key to install SA2006 Plus on both my laptop and my desktop?
- Is the data disk still optional? That is, can data be copied onto a
hard
drive and the DVD left behind, or are you required to keep the DVD
(and a DVD
drive) with you?
- Has the user interface started migrating back to doing things in the
Windows style? You know, pull-down menus, dialog boxes, speed keys,
etc? I
see some hints of that in the screen shots on the Delorme web site.
thanks much for your help,
Garry |
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Alan Burnstine
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 29, 2005 5:08 pm Post subject:
Re: Q's about Street Atlas 2006 |
|
|
Traveling wrote:
| Quote: | Delorme has a very useful users group that's accessible from their
site. And I understand, you now have the option to "turn off" the
interface that you do not like. I believe it's been available in the
2005,2006 versions
Traveling
|
That is not correct. The user interface is still the strange Delorme
design, but there have been some useability enhancements that make it better
then previous versions. |
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Alan Burnstine
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 29, 2005 5:08 pm Post subject:
Re: Q's about Street Atlas 2006 |
|
|
El Alumbrado wrote:
| Quote: | "Garry W" <ListMail@extremelyserious.org> wrote in message
news:coblo1dc2k0pvcr8bo4p7usttsnk16804r@4ax.com...
- Is the data disk still optional? That is, can data be copied onto
a hard drive and the DVD left behind, or are you required to keep
the DVD (and a DVD
drive) with you?
Yes, map data can be installed onto the hard drive. The CD/DVD is not
required for day-to-day operations.
|
Note: You can no longer choose specific areas to copy as you could in the
classic version. It is an all or nothing choice.
| Quote: | - Has the user interface started migrating back to doing things in
the Windows style? You know, pull-down menus, dialog boxes, speed
keys, etc? I see some hints of that in the screen shots on the
Delorme web site.
No, the human interface is still "different". I would like more
consistent control paradigm as well as more control over the
placement of information, fonts and sizes, background colors, etc.
|
There have been some useability enhancements, but still the same strange
interface. I am used to it by now, and actually kind of like it. But it
did take a while to get there.
Alan |
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Traveling
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 29, 2005 5:08 pm Post subject:
Re: Q's about Street Atlas 2006 |
|
|
I agree, it took some time to get adjusted the new interface. I actually
returned the first upgrade that had only the new interface because I
thought the learning curve would be too long to learn. Then they issued
the next version and this had the old interface as default. You had to
select the new interface. It was then that I played with it, and as you
stated, it grew on me. I now wouldn't want to give it up.
Please check http://forum.delorme.com/ and you'll find that there is a
way to turn off the new interface.
Traveling
"Alan Burnstine" <nospam@thetechguru.net> wrote in message
news:LrZif.12791$F73.11366@trnddc03...
| Quote: | El Alumbrado wrote:
"Garry W" <ListMail@extremelyserious.org> wrote in message
news:coblo1dc2k0pvcr8bo4p7usttsnk16804r@4ax.com...
- Is the data disk still optional? That is, can data be copied onto
a hard drive and the DVD left behind, or are you required to keep
the DVD (and a DVD
drive) with you?
Yes, map data can be installed onto the hard drive. The CD/DVD is not
required for day-to-day operations.
Note: You can no longer choose specific areas to copy as you could in
the classic version. It is an all or nothing choice.
- Has the user interface started migrating back to doing things in
the Windows style? You know, pull-down menus, dialog boxes, speed
keys, etc? I see some hints of that in the screen shots on the
Delorme web site.
No, the human interface is still "different". I would like more
consistent control paradigm as well as more control over the
placement of information, fonts and sizes, background colors, etc.
There have been some useability enhancements, but still the same
strange interface. I am used to it by now, and actually kind of like
it. But it did take a while to get there.
Alan
|
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Jack Erbes
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 29, 2005 5:08 pm Post subject:
Re: Q's about Street Atlas 2006 |
|
|
Garry W wrote:
| Quote: | I'm looking at Street Atlas 2006 Plus description, and I am considering
buying it.
This is a Big Thing because I am one of the curmudgeons who, while respecting
Mr. Delorme's decision to buck the tide and the market and implement a user
interface unique unto himself, absolutely could not stand the resulting
products.
snip |
Hear! Hear!
I voted with my feet after SA 9 became SA 200x. Have not bought and
kept SA since although two later versions were tried and returned for
refunds.
I'm using M$ Streets & Trips now. It is not bad, nowhere as good as SA9
was, but it is a work in progress that is usable in its current (S&T
2006) form.
DeLorme tell me that their new GUI was preferred in testing with a
number of experienced and inexperienced computer users. I think the
results were skewed to defend their decision or the users had not
actually tried to use it it realistic situations and were not user of
previous versions. They could not have used experienced SA 9 users to
validate the first release of SA 200x or it would not have been as bad
as it was.
With DeLorme's SA 200x user interface I found that I had lost the
capability to use hot keys to pop down CUA menus and then use subsequent
hot key combos to control every facet of the program. And it also had a
system for managing map and data files that was from hell if you were
used to knowing where things were and wanted to control that.
With SA 200x, using a mouse or any other track pad/finger joystick built
into any laptop I have ever seen was not an adequate substitute for the
SA 9 hot key combos when traveling in cars, trucks, or RV's. I found it
very frustrating and even dangerous to attempt to use SA 200x in a
mobile situation.
DeLorme has put a number of band aids on the program in subsequent
releases. Some of those changes were deja vu for SA 9 users. But users
still have to learn that scrambled up user control thing that, the last
I knew, is completely lacking in logical and intuitive control key
sequences.
DeLorme is now approaching or actually in the position of competing with
a M$ product for the market that they got a big head start on and used
to have pretty much to themselves. The M$ S&T product will be
distributed as a freebie with various M$ products and is cheap to buy as
a stand alone product. It can be gotten with bundled GPS receivers and,
having the Windows CUA GUI, it will give S&T a short learning curve for
many potential buyers.
Like Garry, I have no problem with DeLorme making business decisions, it
can often be a better thing. If they had come up with user's interface
that worked as well or better as the old one I would still be using
their products. As far as I am concerned, the best product shot itself
in the foot.
The current SA 200x products look to me like the the software designers
pursued a design with a "different look and feel" without attempting to
incorporate the capabilities and controls of the old one.
And then there is Street Atlas HandHeld 200x. Is that working yet?
Last I tried it (2005) it was still a useless product in direct
comparison to any similar software. And, to add insult to injury, it
had essentially the same asinine user's interface as the SA PC products.
Jack
--
Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jackerbes at adelphia dot net
(also receiving email at jacker at midmaine.com) |
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Neon John
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:19 pm Post subject:
Re: Q's about Street Atlas 2006 |
|
|
On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 22:43:25 -0800, Garry W
<ListMail@extremelyserious.org> wrote:
| Quote: | So I am still using a 1999 version of Street Atlas. But I starting to find
myself in need of a phone directory that's less than seven years old. Delorme
seems to be the only consumer-level company I can find that's producing one.
|
I don't think SA has a phone book anymore. At least I don't know
about one in SA 2005. Some of the POIs have phone numbers listed, if
that's what you mean. The database is so out of date that many will
be useless.
| Quote: |
So I might need to give Delorme some money, for the first time in years. I
had a few questions first that I haven't been able to find answers to...
- Does Street Atlas still have an "open" license? That is, can I use the same
license key to install SA2006 Plus on both my laptop and my desktop?
|
Copy protection is long gone. Install it on as many machines as you
like.
| Quote: |
- Is the data disk still optional? That is, can data be copied onto a hard
drive and the DVD left behind, or are you required to keep the DVD (and a DVD
drive) with you?
|
Yes.
| Quote: |
- Has the user interface started migrating back to doing things in the
Windows style? You know, pull-down menus, dialog boxes, speed keys, etc? I
see some hints of that in the screen shots on the Delorme web site.
|
Unfortunately, no. Like you, I *HATE* that interface. That was one
of the many reasons I skipped the yearly "downgrade" this year. It'll
probably be S&T for me next year.
If you can (broadband + binaries Usenet), I HIGHLY suggest grabbing a
bootleg copy of SA and try it before you buy. It seems to get worse
every year. Get a bootleg of S&T too and try it.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN |
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Dan Lawyer
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:23 pm Post subject:
Re: Q's about Street Atlas 2006 |
|
|
"Alan Burnstine" <nospam@thetechguru.net> wrote in message
news:DB_if.3709$P33.3061@trnddc01...
| Quote: | Traveling wrote:
I agree, it took some time to get adjusted the new interface. I
actually returned the first upgrade that had only the new interface
because I thought the learning curve would be too long to learn. Then
they issued the next version and this had the old interface as
default. You had to select the new interface. It was then that I played
with it, and as you stated, it grew on me. I now wouldn't want
to give it up.
Please check http://forum.delorme.com/ and you'll find that there is
a way to turn off the new interface.
I am a regular participant at the forum, and there is no way to turn off
the new interface. Are you thinking about the new toolbar? That I
believe can be turned off, but there is no way to return to the old
SA1-SA9 interface.
Alan
|
I think Traveling is thinking of the Simple File Management (one mapfile
with one route and all draw objects (ie. SA# format)), versus the Advanced
File Management where you can have multiple routes and draw files in one
mapfile and share the files among any mapfiles you want.
The SA# interface won't ever be back, so don't wait for it. Most non-MS
major applications don't even use it anymore. Photo and Video editing apps
are prime examples, as well as most major game apps have never used it. You
see pieces of it in them, but not in the main interface.
Funny, MS actually started using tab interface in their options years ago,
well back into the 90's. DeLorme just used that concept as the apps main
interface in the late 90's with the first version of Topo USA (that's the
first I saw of it, they may have had it in their professional apps (XMap,
etc) prior to that) |
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Alan Burnstine
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:24 pm Post subject:
Re: Q's about Street Atlas 2006 |
|
|
Neon John wrote:
| Quote: | On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 22:43:25 -0800, Garry W
ListMail@extremelyserious.org> wrote:
So I am still using a 1999 version of Street Atlas. But I starting
to find myself in need of a phone directory that's less than seven
years old. Delorme seems to be the only consumer-level company I can
find that's producing one.
I don't think SA has a phone book anymore. At least I don't know
about one in SA 2005. Some of the POIs have phone numbers listed, if
that's what you mean. The database is so out of date that many will
be useless.
|
SA 2006 Plus does.
| Quote: |
If you can (broadband + binaries Usenet), I HIGHLY suggest grabbing a
bootleg copy of SA and try it before you buy. It seems to get worse
every year. Get a bootleg of S&T too and try it.
|
Why. steal it? Delorme has a 30 day money back no questions asked
guarantee. If you buy it, don't like it, and return it, you are sending a
message (which unfortunatly, I believe is still falling on deaf ears, and I
LIKE Delorme's stuff). If you just steal a copy and delete it, they never
hear about it and will continue to think everyone just loves the
interface....
Alan |
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GBinNC
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Nov 30, 2005 12:19 am Post subject:
Re: Q's about Street Atlas 2006 |
|
|
On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 17:24:07 GMT, "Alan Burnstine"
<nospam@thetechguru.net> wrote:
| Quote: | Neon John had said:
If you can (broadband + binaries Usenet), I HIGHLY suggest grabbing a
bootleg copy of SA and try it before you buy. It seems to get worse
every year. Get a bootleg of S&T too and try it.
Why. steal it? Delorme has a 30 day money back no questions asked
guarantee. If you buy it, don't like it, and return it, you are sending a
message (which unfortunatly, I believe is still falling on deaf ears, and I
LIKE Delorme's stuff). If you just steal a copy and delete it, they never
hear about it and will continue to think everyone just loves the
interface....
|
FTR, Neon John has said here numerous times, in various ways, that he
has no respect for copyright. OTOH, everything he puts out on the 'net
(that I've seen, anyway) has a copyright with his name on it.
Go figure.
GB in NC |
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Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:08 am Post subject:
Re: Q's about Street Atlas 2006 |
|
|
On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 01:04:47 -0600, "El Alumbrado"
<el*alumbrado@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | "Garry W" <ListMail@extremelyserious.org> wrote in message
news:coblo1dc2k0pvcr8bo4p7usttsnk16804r@4ax.com...
I'm looking at Street Atlas 2006 Plus description, and I am considering
buying it.
This is a Big Thing because I am one of the curmudgeons who, while
respecting
Mr. Delorme's decision to buck the tide and the market and implement a
user
interface unique unto himself, absolutely could not stand the resulting
products.
I agree. The mapping engine inherent in Delorme products is superb, and the
feature set is extensive, but the human interface is atrocious.
|
I only have SA2006, and not Plus. If Plus uses the same mapping data
that SA2006 does, it sucks. The maps are inaccurate anywhere from 50ft
to half a block. In addition to roads it simply doesn't show due to
the dates of it's maps. That's why I went to ST2006. It is dead on
accurate. SA's maps are so inaccurate as to be rendered near useless,
IMHO.
Tom |
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Garry W
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:08 am Post subject:
Re: Q's about Street Atlas 2006 |
|
|
Thanks for all the replies!
Re the idea of buying it, trying it, returning it: sounds good. But it looks
like it costs you an extra $30 to buy SA2006 Plus direct from Delorme rather
than from a third party (e.g. Amazon). That's a lot. Yah, you =could= buy it
direct from Delorme, try it, return it, and then buy it again from the
cheaper place, but that would be Rude! :)
(Amazon's own policy is that you get 50% back on a software return.)
Re screen snaps: courtesy of lovely Amazon, I finally found a screen snap of
the newest user interface. Still looks =very= similar to the original bad UI,
alas. See http://makeashorterlink.com/?J56411D3C.
Re sending Delorme "a message": he/they must already have heard it, long ago.
If you look at the SA user reviews on Amazon, for example, there are
boatloads of people who have made it clear what they dislike about it.
(I note that Microsoft Streets and Trips is still only a half-star in front
of Delorme in the Amazon user ratings... that's a miracle. I am reminded of
my brother, who uses Street Atlas all the time... he's never seen a different
mapping user interface than Delorme, so he's blissfully unaware that
something might be unnecessarily clumsy about it. Maybe I should get a
lobotomy.)
Jack Erbes <jackerbes@adelphia.net> wrote:
| Quote: | With DeLorme's SA 200x user interface I found that I had lost the
capability to use hot keys to pop down CUA menus and then use subsequent
hot key combos to control every facet of the program.
|
I'm with Jack. If it the new UI at least had hot keys, I could live with it.
Could anyone report whether SA nowadays has a useful selection of hot keys?
(In SA7 I most commonly use: pan, zoom, gps start/stop, auto-pan on/off,
voice on/off, find placename, find address, find zip.)
And about those phone listings...
Yes, the "Plus" product adds full white pages and yellow pages onto the
regular Street Atlas. I'm not sure how useable the feature is... the old
"Phone Search USA" can be extremely slow when you don't speak to it just
right.
I'd stay with my SA7 if it weren't for needing the new phone book. But I
recently switched from a cell phone company that had really bad directory
assistance (Verizon) to a new cell phone company that has hopelessly bad
directory assistance (Sprint), and I'm sort of desperate. Roadside pay
phones, with attached paper phone books, are getting to be harder and harder
to come by.
Meanwhile, Infone, which provided remarkably good directory assistance, has
gone out of business. Sigh.
Seems odd that Delorme is the =only= consumer-level company selling loadable
phone listings. Oh well. (But: I appreciate it.)
thanks again for the help,
Garry |
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Tex Houston
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:08 am Post subject:
Re: Q's about Street Atlas 2006 |
|
|
"Garry W" <ListMail@extremelyserious.org> wrote in message
news:o0dpo1d5qm0966uk85g82mcmhhgkr3bp3j@4ax.com...
| Quote: | And about those phone listings...
Seems odd that Delorme is the =only= consumer-level company selling
loadable
phone listings. Oh well. (But: I appreciate it.)
thanks again for the help,
Garry
|
www.whitepages.com
www.yellowpages.com
Tex |
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