| Author |
Message |
Steve
Guest
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 Posted:
Tue Jan 25, 2005 4:44 am Post subject:
Endangered Gizmos List |
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Rather than sit back and watch as promising new technologies are
picked off one-by-one, EFF has created the Endangered Gizmos List to
help you defend fair use and preserve the environment for innovation.
http://www.eff.org/endangered |
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Larry Bud
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Jan 27, 2005 4:11 am Post subject:
Re: Endangered Gizmos List |
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Steve wrote:
| Quote: | Rather than sit back and watch as promising new technologies are
picked off one-by-one, EFF has created the Endangered Gizmos List to
help you defend fair use and preserve the environment for innovation.
http://www.eff.org/endangered
From the site:
That's the strategy the entertainment industry is using to control the |
next generation of TiVos and iPods. Its arsenal includes
government-backed technology mandates, lawsuits, international
treaties, and behind-the-scenes negotiations in seemingly obscure
technology standards groups. The result is a world in which,
increasingly, only industry-approved devices and technologies are
"allowed" to survive in the marketplace.
---
Nothing is stopping anyone from making a TiVo like device, and the site
just glosses over their claim that these are "government-backed
technology mandates"... What are those mandates when it comes to TiVo,
that they support NTSC broadcasting standards? Well, I say, GOOD.
Standards are required for competition to survive. It's a fucking
nightmare when there were 3 companies arguing over CD standards, and
once a standard was made, CDs became commonplace quickly.
The main argument by the website is that many of these innovations were
sued out of business. However, nearly all of the innovations mentioned
on the site were primarily used to steal intellectual property.
As I dig deeper into the site, I see they are REALLY against
intellectual property, and complain about all the patents out there.
Obviously, without protecting intellectual property, we wouldn't have
nearly the innovations we have today, because there would be no
incentive for r&d. |
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Larry Bud
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Jan 27, 2005 4:12 am Post subject:
Re: Endangered Gizmos List |
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Steve wrote:
| Quote: | Rather than sit back and watch as promising new technologies are
picked off one-by-one, EFF has created the Endangered Gizmos List to
help you defend fair use and preserve the environment for innovation.
http://www.eff.org/endangered
|
Hell, it all makes sense now:
Jason Schultz
Staff Attorney
Electronic Frontier Foundation
454 Shotwell Street
San Francisco, CA 94110
(415) 436-9333 x 112
jason@eff.org
http://www.eff.org
Right out of the Socialist Utopia that is S.F. CA! |
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Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Jan 27, 2005 5:06 am Post subject:
Re: Endangered Gizmos List |
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In article <1106781131.114996.158370@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
"Larry Bud" <larrybud2002@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
Right out of the Socialist Utopia that is S.F. CA!
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Cool. Another one for the killfile. |
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Michelle Steiner
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Jan 27, 2005 5:16 am Post subject:
Re: Endangered Gizmos List |
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In article <1106781131.114996.158370@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
"Larry Bud" <larrybud2002@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Right out of the Socialist Utopia that is S.F. CA!
|
You either have no idea what the EFF is, or you want businesses to run
our lives for us.
--
Stop Mad Cowboy Disease: Impeach the son of a Bush. |
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Michelle Steiner
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Jan 27, 2005 5:20 am Post subject:
Re: Endangered Gizmos List |
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In article <1106781080.065111.297830@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
"Larry Bud" <larrybud2002@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | The main argument by the website is that many of these innovations
were sued out of business. However, nearly all of the innovations
mentioned on the site were primarily used to steal intellectual
property.
|
Devices don't steal intellectual property; people steal intellectual
property.
As pointed out by the article, if this kind of thought had prevailed a
few decades ago, we wouldn't have VCRs, if it had prevailed a few
decades before that we wouldn't have voice recorders either.
Nor does this have anything to do with standards.
--
Stop Mad Cowboy Disease: Impeach the son of a Bush. |
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Steve
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Jan 27, 2005 5:34 am Post subject:
Re: Endangered Gizmos List |
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Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
| Quote: | "Larry Bud" <larrybud2002@yahoo.com> wrote:
Right out of the Socialist Utopia that is S.F. CA!
You either have no idea what the EFF is, or you want businesses to run
our lives for us.
|
Bingo. EFF has been fighting for the rights of consumers and netizens
for many years. Their mission statement:
If America's founding fathers had anticipated the digital frontier,
there would be a clause in the Constitution protecting your rights
online, as well. Instead, a modern group of freedom fighters was
necessary to extend the original vision into the digital world.
That's where the Electronic Frontier Foundation comes in. Just as
Patriots fought for liberty and freedom, we fight measures that
threaten basic human rights. Only the dominion we defend is the vast
wealth of digital information, innovation, and technology that resides
online.
The Electronic Frontier Foundation is a group of passionate people -
lawyers, technologists, volunteers, and visionaries - working in the
trenches, battling to protect your rights and the rights of web
surfers everywhere. The dedicated people of EFF challenge legislation
that threatens to put a price on what is invaluable; to control what
must remain boundless.
Electronic Frontier Foundation: Because being able to share ideas and
information is the reason the Web was created in the first place. |
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hubcap
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Jan 27, 2005 3:42 pm Post subject:
Re: Endangered Gizmos List |
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| Quote: | Devices don't steal intellectual property; people steal intellectual
property.
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"Larry Bud" <larrybud2002@yahoo.com> writes:
| Quote: | Nonsense. One must have the technology to steal electronic
intellectual property.
|
THE INTERNET MADE ME DO IT!
-Mike |
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Larry Bud
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Jan 27, 2005 6:07 pm Post subject:
Re: Endangered Gizmos List |
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Michelle Steiner wrote:
| Quote: | In article <1106781080.065111.297830@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
"Larry Bud" <larrybud2002@yahoo.com> wrote:
The main argument by the website is that many of these innovations
were sued out of business. However, nearly all of the innovations
mentioned on the site were primarily used to steal intellectual
property.
Devices don't steal intellectual property; people steal intellectual
property.
|
Nonsense. One must have the technology to steal electronic
intellectual property.
| Quote: | As pointed out by the article, if this kind of thought had prevailed
a
few decades ago, we wouldn't have VCRs, if it had prevailed a few
decades before that we wouldn't have voice recorders either.
|
The courts ruled on the VCR with the same rules they ruled on Napster.
| Quote: | Nor does this have anything to do with standards.
|
But it does. Without the patents that they are against, we wouldn't
have all of the electronic devices that work nearly seamlessly together
as we do now. |
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Larry Bud
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Jan 27, 2005 6:16 pm Post subject:
Re: Endangered Gizmos List |
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Steve wrote:
| Quote: | Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
"Larry Bud" <larrybud2002@yahoo.com> wrote:
Right out of the Socialist Utopia that is S.F. CA!
You either have no idea what the EFF is, or you want businesses to
run
our lives for us.
Bingo. EFF has been fighting for the rights of consumers and
netizens
for many years. Their mission statement:
|
Who cares what your "mission" is? What their effect is is that if the
EFF had their way, all digital media would be in open source, it'd be
impossible to get an idea patented, and compensation for said
innovation would be spread out instead of rewarding the person or
company who came up with it.
In one of their opinions, they state:"As it stands, the lower court's
decision makes it unlawful in most cases to reverse engineer any
commercial software program, thus making it impossible to create new
programs that interoperate with older ones. "
This is just blatant lies or blantant ignorance. There are thousands
of programs which run on the Windows platform that were created with
ZERO reverse engineering of Windows. There are standards set up that
allow one program to communicate with a completely unrelated program.
No reverse engineering of either package.
The EFF doesn't believe in property rights, plain and simple. |
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Michelle Steiner
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Jan 27, 2005 10:45 pm Post subject:
Re: Endangered Gizmos List |
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In article <1106831790.309902.61760@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
"Larry Bud" <larrybud2002@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Who cares what your "mission" is? What their effect is is that if
the EFF had their way, all digital media would be in open source,
it'd be impossible to get an idea patented, and compensation for said
innovation would be spread out instead of rewarding the person or
company who came up with it.
|
How do you come to that conclusion?
I can see how those who believe that content creators can dictate to
purchasers what they can and cannot do with their purchase would be
against the EFF, but those who think that it is acceptable to make
back-up copies, and extract information under the fair-use provisions of
copyright laws applaud the EFF.
| Quote: | In one of their opinions, they state:"As it stands, the lower court's
decision makes it unlawful in most cases to reverse engineer any
commercial software program, thus making it impossible to create new
programs that interoperate with older ones. "
This is just blatant lies or blantant ignorance. There are
thousands of programs which run on the Windows platform that were
created with ZERO reverse engineering of Windows.
|
That has absolutely nothing to do with what they are talking about.
| Quote: | There are standards set up that allow one program to communicate with
a completely unrelated program. No reverse engineering of either
package.
|
You apparently do not understand what "interoperate" means.
| Quote: | The EFF doesn't believe in property rights, plain and simple.
|
No, it is you who doesn't believe in property rights; you are supporting
measures that would make it illegal to back up software, audio
recordings, video recordings, etc., that people buy and own.
--
Stop Mad Cowboy Disease: Impeach the son of a Bush. |
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Michelle Steiner
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Jan 27, 2005 10:47 pm Post subject:
Re: Endangered Gizmos List |
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|
In article <1106831274.181766.242390@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
"Larry Bud" <larrybud2002@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Devices don't steal intellectual property; people steal
intellectual property.
Nonsense. One must have the technology to steal electronic
intellectual property.
|
Nonsense; technology by itself doesn't do a thing. It's like with
firearms, "Guns don't kill people; people kill people."
| Quote: | As pointed out by the article, if this kind of thought had
prevailed a few decades ago, we wouldn't have VCRs, if it had
prevailed a few decades before that we wouldn't have voice
recorders either.
The courts ruled on the VCR with the same rules they ruled on
Napster.
|
No; the rules were different.
| Quote: | Nor does this have anything to do with standards.
But it does. Without the patents that they are against, we wouldn't
have all of the electronic devices that work nearly seamlessly
together as we do now.
|
Examples, please?
--
Stop Mad Cowboy Disease: Impeach the son of a Bush. |
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Larry Bud
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Jan 28, 2005 12:27 am Post subject:
Re: Endangered Gizmos List |
|
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| Quote: | Who cares what your "mission" is? What their effect is is that if
the EFF had their way, all digital media would be in open source,
it'd be impossible to get an idea patented, and compensation for
said
innovation would be spread out instead of rewarding the person or
company who came up with it.
How do you come to that conclusion?
|
Without patents and intellectual property, there would be little
innovation. What's the point of spending time and money on a new
product when the profit is spread among your competitors?
| Quote: | I can see how those who believe that content creators can dictate to
purchasers what they can and cannot do with their purchase would be
against the EFF, but those who think that it is acceptable to make
back-up copies, and extract information under the fair-use provisions
of
copyright laws applaud the EFF.
|
Napster is not about fair use. It's about spreading digital
information to thousands of people at once.
| Quote: | In one of their opinions, they state:"As it stands, the lower
court's
decision makes it unlawful in most cases to reverse engineer any
commercial software program, thus making it impossible to create
new
programs that interoperate with older ones. "
This is just blatant lies or blantant ignorance. There are
thousands of programs which run on the Windows platform that were
created with ZERO reverse engineering of Windows.
That has absolutely nothing to do with what they are talking about.
|
Of course it does. They are for open source and allowing companies to
reverse engineer software.
| Quote: | There are standards set up that allow one program to communicate
with
a completely unrelated program. No reverse engineering of either
package.
You apparently do not understand what "interoperate" means.
|
Oh I get it. If I don't want to screwing with my program, stay out.
If you don't like how my program works, write your own program.
| Quote: | The EFF doesn't believe in property rights, plain and simple.
No, it is you who doesn't believe in property rights; you are
supporting
measures that would make it illegal to back up software, audio
recordings, video recordings, etc., that people buy and own.
|
You don't own software, you license it.
Feel free to start your own software company and change the license
agreement to allow for copying. We'll see how long you stay in
business. |
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Larry Bud
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Jan 28, 2005 12:44 am Post subject:
Re: Endangered Gizmos List |
|
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| Quote: | Nonsense. One must have the technology to steal electronic
intellectual property.
Nonsense; technology by itself doesn't do a thing. It's like with
firearms, "Guns don't kill people; people kill people."
|
And one is charged with additional charges when committing a crime with
a gun. Since stealing intellectual property is a crime, using said
technology is illegal.
Computer viruses are a perfect example... the program all by itself
doesn't do anything.
| Quote: | As pointed out by the article, if this kind of thought had
prevailed a few decades ago, we wouldn't have VCRs, if it had
prevailed a few decades before that we wouldn't have voice
recorders either.
The courts ruled on the VCR with the same rules they ruled on
Napster.
No; the rules were different.
|
No, they the court never changed fair use laws. They said putting a
song on Napster for thousands to download is not fair use.
| Quote: | Nor does this have anything to do with standards.
But it does. Without the patents that they are against, we
wouldn't
have all of the electronic devices that work nearly seamlessly
together as we do now.
Examples, please?
|
Sure, the computer you're using is based completely on standards:
There's a standard monitor connection that allows you to plug in any
monitor regardless of brand. There's a standard on the bus which
allows you to plug in any expansion card, regardless of brand or
function. There's a standard USB port which allows you to plug in any
USB device. These innovations are patented.
HTTP, another good one. Could you imagine if anybody was allowed to
reverse engineer the HTTP protocol for their own use and call it HTTP?
Everybody would have their own flavor of HTTP, and no server would be
able to talk to a client machine without the same flavor of HTTP. It
would make the entire protocol useless.
Without the protection of patents, what's my incentive to spend money
on R&D to develop ANYTHING? There are reasons the US is the
technological leader, and one of those reasons is Patent protection. |
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Jeff Rife
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Jan 28, 2005 2:02 am Post subject:
Re: Endangered Gizmos List |
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Larry Bud (larrybud2002@yahoo.com) wrote in rec.video.satellite.dbs:
| Quote: | You don't own software, you license it.
Feel free to start your own software company and change the license
agreement to allow for copying. We'll see how long you stay in
business.
|
Well, Microsoft seems to do OK.
Since copyright law explicitly says that software may be backed up (and no
shrink-wrap agreement can override this), Microsoft, Symantec, etc., all
let you make backup copies of their software.
--
Jeff Rife | "If the world were destroyed and you were the
| last man within a thousand mile radius, I would
| swim across the ocean on a rumor that Screech
| from 'Saved by the Bell' was spotted in Japan."
| -- Ellen |
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