STVTalk.com

It is a vertically mounted, piezoelectric, vibrating, bifurcated reed.
Not extremely high-tech, but clever nonetheless.

"Charlie Ih" <ih@duck.ee.udel.edu> wrote in message news:cr1hr0$38l$1@dewey.udel.edu...

... Do you know what type of gyro it uses,
a fiber gyro. Certainly it is very high tech. All these may justify
its high cost.

Robbie wrote:

As noted, a good automotive factory installed, integrated GPS system
have many advantages over any portable system.

How so..? What if you have or use more than one vehicle..? Even if all the
vehicles in the world were GPS equipped it wouldn't get round the problem
of using a route created using one GPS on another. I can create routes on
my PC and use them in any vehicle I drive, using my 2610. How do I do that
with a built in unit..?

It's like going back to the early days of mobile phones, where they were
hard wired into the car and you couldn't take it with you when you got
out. Can you imagine going back to that..? Yet that is what you are
advocating with GPS.

I'll stick with my 2610, thanks..!

Ivor

H@n Zijsp@n wrote:

"Robbie" <robbiex@bellsouth.net> schreef in bericht
news:41D54C90.2050403@bellsouth.net...
As noted, a good automotive factory installed, integrated GPS
system have many advantages over any portable system. I agree that
it is remarkable how well that the systems work. It becomes an
indispensable driving aide and one that you really miss if it is
not available. I have no doubt that the integrated technology will
become a
standard feature on most vehicles.

And how do you find your way back to your car?

Well, how?

If you need a GPS to remember where you parked your car, there's no hope
for you at all, my friend..!


Ivor

Ivor Jones <this.address@notvalid.inv> wrote:

How so..? What if you have or use more than one vehicle..? Even if all the
vehicles in the world were GPS equipped it wouldn't get round the problem
of using a route created using one GPS on another. I can create routes on
my PC and use them in any vehicle I drive, using my 2610. How do I do that
with a built in unit..?

The advantages and disadvantages of a built-in vs. a portable unit are all
dependant upon the end user, their needs and their skill level.

The reason you are having such a hard time understanding why someone
would choose a built-in vs. a portable is because you see things from the
perspective of a techie. To some folks, a car navigation system is like
a toaster: they just want to turn it on and have it work. Not everyone
in the world cares about PC interfaces, stored routes, and so on.
They just want to get from A to B and don't care about what's in the box.

In fact, I would argue that people like us who enjoy hooking gadgets
up to our PC's are in the minority /as a whole/. In the /GPS world/,
we may be the majority because the technology is still relatively new,
and as such it has a higher geek-factor, but as it becomes more and
more mainstream, you're going to find folks who want it to "just work"
without any hassels. And that's where a built-in system really shines:
you don't have to hook it up, load maps, interface with a PC, run wires
on your dashboard, attach antennas or, most importantly, worry about
whether or not it will be stolen. You just insert a DVD and you're
done.

To you, these are huge disadvantages because it implies a lack of
portability, a lack of exapndability and a lack of flexibility. But
others may not /care/ about these things. Not everyone's priorities are
the same as yours. Nor is everyone's skill level...interfacing devices
with a PC is considered an obsticle to many people, not an advantage.

It's like going back to the early days of mobile phones, where they were
hard wired into the car and you couldn't take it with you when you got
out. Can you imagine going back to that..? Yet that is what you are
advocating with GPS.

I can't take my car-mounted CD-changer with me when I travel, either.
What's your point? Mine is that the folks that choose a built-in nav
system don't care about portability. To them, what you say above is a
non-argument. It's not even a relevant statement.


Cheers,
-+JLS

--
\ carpe cavy!
seagull @ aracnet.com \
http://www.aracnet.com/~seagull/ \ (seize the guinea pig!)

Seagull wrote:

Ivor Jones <this.address@notvalid.inv> wrote:

How so..? What if you have or use more than one vehicle..? Even if
all the vehicles in the world were GPS equipped it wouldn't get
round the problem of using a route created using one GPS on
another. I can create routes on my PC and use them in any vehicle
I drive, using my 2610. How do I do that with a built in unit..?

The advantages and disadvantages of a built-in vs. a portable unit
are all dependant upon the end user, their needs and their skill
level.

The reason you are having such a hard time understanding why someone
would choose a built-in vs. a portable is because you see things
from the perspective of a techie. To some folks, a car navigation
system is like a toaster: they just want to turn it on and have it
work. Not everyone in the world cares about PC interfaces, stored
routes, and so on.
They just want to get from A to B and don't care about what's in
the box.

In fact, I would argue that people like us who enjoy hooking gadgets
up to our PC's are in the minority /as a whole/. In the /GPS
world/,
we may be the majority because the technology is still relatively
new, and as such it has a higher geek-factor, but as it becomes
more and
more mainstream, you're going to find folks who want it to "just
work" without any hassels. And that's where a built-in system
really shines: you don't have to hook it up, load maps, interface
with a PC, run wires on your dashboard, attach antennas or, most
importantly, worry about whether or not it will be stolen. You
just insert a DVD and you're
done.

It takes me 10 seconds to clip the 2610 into the dash mount and plug in
the cable. Same again when leaving the vehicle.

To you, these are huge disadvantages because it implies a lack of
portability, a lack of exapndability and a lack of flexibility. But
others may not /care/ about these things. Not everyone's
priorities are the same as yours. Nor is everyone's skill
level...interfacing devices with a PC is considered an obsticle to
many people, not an advantage.

If you're not a PC user, the 2620 has all the maps pre-loaded and is just
as portable as the 2610.

It's like going back to the early days of mobile phones, where
they were hard wired into the car and you couldn't take it with
you when you got out. Can you imagine going back to that..? Yet
that is what you are advocating with GPS.

I can't take my car-mounted CD-changer with me when I travel,
either. What's your point? Mine is that the folks that choose a
built-in nav system don't care about portability.

You're right, not everyone cares about portability, but I believe more
would if they knew it existed, rather than being pre-sold built in units
by car manufacturers out to make a sale.

To them, what you say above is a non-argument. It's not even a
relevant statement.

It's extremely relevant. A GPS that has been used, as opposed to one
straight out of the box, has personal information stored in it, just as a
phone does. Your CD analogy isn't relevant, because if I really
desperately needed to carry on listening to the CD I was just playing I
can use a portable player and just swap the CD over. I can't transfer
map/routing data to a portable GPS, even if I had one, as they are
unlikely to be compatible.

Ivor

"Ivor Jones" <this.address@notvalid.inv> schreef in bericht
news:cr4v9j$m6u$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...

If you need a GPS to remember where you parked your car, there's no hope
for you at all, my friend..!

Well, my car is my last concern. I ride my motorbike to moutainess aereas,
with my two great loves. The wife in the sidecar, my bicycle on the trailor.
I put up a tent for the wife and switch vehicles for the GPSMAP 60CS, thanks
to Ram and Touratech. Then I start riding and explore the slopes.
When I get hungry I trust the 60CS to bring me back to my other great
love... and my wife, of course.

Happy newyear.

H@n Zijsp@n

Ivor Jones <this.address@notvalid.inv> wrote:

It takes me 10 seconds to clip the 2610 into the dash mount and plug in
the cable. Same again when leaving the vehicle.

If you're not a PC user, the 2620 has all the maps pre-loaded and is just
as portable as the 2610.

Where do you put your 26x0 when you leave your car? You disconnect the
cables and then either hide it or carry it with you. To some people,
this is acceptable. To others, this is a pain in the ass that interferes
with the usability of the product. The issue is not whether or not this
is a difficult procedure, but rather whether or not you want to have to
do it at all.

It's extremely relevant. A GPS that has been used, as opposed to one
straight out of the box, has personal information stored in it, just as a
phone does. Your CD analogy isn't relevant,

The point is not to compare the usage models of CDs to GPS units, but
rather to point out that integrated systems have a role in a vehicle
despite their limitations. We put up with those limitations when the
perceived benefit outwieghs the constraints. These are value judgements
that you and I make when purchasing a car or accessories to go with it,
and in the end, it comes down to personal preferences.

Not everyone shares the same preferences as you. Portability is not
the end-all, be-all feature. And some features, like dead-reckoning or
integration, are mutually exclusive with portability. This means the
end user has to make a choice on what is more important to them.

Just because portabilty is a priority to me and you, that does not
automatically make it a priority to my wife, your neighbor or the person
down the street who hates computers. You /think/ it would if you could
show them how wonderful portable units were, but just thinking it so
does not make it true. People are different. Their needs are different.
If someone does not care about portability, then the discussion is over.
You can't argue with their preferences.

I am not saying integrated units are better than portables. I'm not
even saying the opposite. I am saying they are differnt and appeal to
different people. Why do you find it so difficult to grasp this concept?


Cheers,
-+JLS

--
\ carpe cavy!
seagull @ aracnet.com \
http://www.aracnet.com/~seagull/ \ (seize the guinea pig!)

Seagull wrote:

Ivor Jones <this.address@notvalid.inv> wrote:

It takes me 10 seconds to clip the 2610 into the dash mount and
plug in the cable. Same again when leaving the vehicle.

If you're not a PC user, the 2620 has all the maps pre-loaded and
is just as portable as the 2610.

Where do you put your 26x0 when you leave your car? You disconnect
the cables and then either hide it or carry it with you. To some
people, this is acceptable. To others, this is a pain in the ass
that interferes with the usability of the product. The issue is
not whether or not this is a difficult procedure, but rather
whether or not you want to have to do it at all.

If I'm using another vehicle, obviously I take it with me. If not, I lock
it in the car out of sight, the same as I would do with any other valuable
item I had with me. Why anyone should consider protecting valuable
property a pain in the ass I can't fathom.

It's extremely relevant. A GPS that has been used, as opposed to
one straight out of the box, has personal information stored in
it, just as a phone does. Your CD analogy isn't relevant,

The point is not to compare the usage models of CDs to GPS units,
but rather to point out that integrated systems have a role in a
vehicle despite their limitations. We put up with those
limitations when the perceived benefit outwieghs the constraints.
These are value judgements that you and I make when purchasing a
car or accessories to go with it, and in the end, it comes down to
personal preferences.

Not everyone shares the same preferences as you. Portability is not
the end-all, be-all feature.

It is if you own or use more than one vehicle..!

And some features, like
dead-reckoning or integration, are mutually exclusive with
portability. This means the end user has to make a choice on what
is more important to them.

Read about the 2650 with regard to dead reckoning. I'm not sure what you
mean by integration.

Just because portabilty is a priority to me and you, that does not
automatically make it a priority to my wife, your neighbor or the
person down the street who hates computers. You /think/ it would
if you could show them how wonderful portable units were, but just
thinking it so does not make it true. People are different. Their
needs are different. If someone does not care about portability,
then the discussion is over. You can't argue with their preferences.

I'm not trying to..!

I am not saying integrated units are better than portables. I'm not
even saying the opposite. I am saying they are differnt and appeal
to different people. Why do you find it so difficult to grasp this
concept?

I don't, I understand fully that some people like built in units. I just
don't understand *why* - there is a difference..!

Anyway, this has been a most interesting debate, I thank you for your
input and time, but I think we're going round in circles here so I propose
to end it now..!

Regards,

Ivor

Ivor Jones <this.address@notvalid.inv> wrote:

item I had with me. Why anyone should consider protecting valuable
property a pain in the ass I can't fathom.

Because the alternative with a built-in system is not having to take
special precautions. To some people, this and the other features
are more appealing than the advantages of portability. It's not about
protecting assets, it's about not having to deal with the matter at
all. And it's a preference.

Not everyone shares the same preferences as you. Portability is not
the end-all, be-all feature.

It is if you own or use more than one vehicle..!

If you care about such things. Again, this is a matter of preference.

Read about the 2650 with regard to dead reckoning. I'm not sure what you
mean by integration.

I know what the 2650 is. Dead reckoning requires a physical hookup
to the spedometer and reverse light indicator. That is not portable.
You can take the 2650 with you, but it functions like a 2610 when it's
not in the car that has the DR cables installed in it.

I don't, I understand fully that some people like built in units. I just
don't understand *why* - there is a difference..!

Preferences are like that. Some people like chocolate ice cream and
some like vanilla. The "why" is irrelevant.


Cheers,
-+JLS

--
\ carpe cavy!
seagull @ aracnet.com \
http://www.aracnet.com/~seagull/ \ (seize the guinea pig!)

Seagull wrote:

Ivor Jones <this.address@notvalid.inv> wrote:

item I had with me. Why anyone should consider protecting valuable
property a pain in the ass I can't fathom.


Because the alternative with a built-in system is not having to take
special precautions. To some people, this and the other features
are more appealing than the advantages of portability. It's not about
protecting assets, it's about not having to deal with the matter at
all. And it's a preference.


Not everyone shares the same preferences as you. Portability is not
the end-all, be-all feature.

It is if you own or use more than one vehicle..!


If you care about such things. Again, this is a matter of preference.


Read about the 2650 with regard to dead reckoning. I'm not sure what you
mean by integration.


I know what the 2650 is. Dead reckoning requires a physical hookup
to the spedometer and reverse light indicator. That is not portable.
You can take the 2650 with you, but it functions like a 2610 when it's
not in the car that has the DR cables installed in it.


I don't, I understand fully that some people like built in units. I just
don't understand *why* - there is a difference..!


Preferences are like that. Some people like chocolate ice cream and
some like vanilla. The "why" is irrelevant.

Not if you are in the business of selling ice cream. Why people pick the
unit they do is very relevant to some people.

Dale

Cheers,
-+JLS

--
_ _ Dale DePriest
/`) _ // http://users.cwnet.com/dalede
o/_/ (_(_X_(` For GPS and GPS/PDAs

"Ivor Jones" <this.address@notvalid.inv> wrote in message
news:cr0rto$hfr$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...

What do you mean "loose" your car..? Loose it where..? Do you mean "lose"
?? And how precisely will a handheld GPS allow you to find your car if you
have been so careless as to "loose" it..?!

The problem is you can't take it with you on the road unless you drive your
car. I've seen friends with built-in car GPS who never turn them on because
they most drive around town and know the roads already. The GPS navigator
helps a lot more when you travel in strange cities. It's a shame you can't
take it with you.

Something like the SP2610 is perfect for this. I travel often enough and my
company does not pay for rental cars that have GPS so the SP2610 is
invaluable.

Frankly, I think the Honda navigation system (and most of those that are
DVD-based) is very good except that it's a lot slower in re-computing than
the SP2610. Why pay double if not triple for something that does the same,
slower and you can't take it with you?

In article <cr26li$oh5$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>,
Ivor Jones <nor.is@this.inv> wrote:

I only have one car. If I rent a car for business, I get the
Neverlost feature.

I have no idea what that is. I haven't seen it on any car I've ever rented.
...

Ivor

https://www.hertz.com/byr/whyhertz/byrw ... erlost.jsp

http://www.bythom.com/neverlost.htm

(( Yes, I own a Honda automobile. I have owned two over the last two decades.
No, I do not own a Honda Navigation system. I do own several Garmin GPSs,
including a 2610 with a 2GB CF card with all of City Navigator 6 and
all of WorldMap except for empty regions and that covered completely by
City Navigator 6. I have used the Delorme Street Atlas products, at
least 2004 and 2005 with voice recognition and have discovered that the
voice recognition capacities are useful but leave much to be desired when
understanding anything but very stylized expressions, such as ``Computer,
Next Turn.'' The price of the Garmin 2610 unit, its portability from
vehicle to vehicle (it does not have an internal battery, therefore it
is not suited well for use away from vehicles with 12V power) and my
expectations about future mapping upgrade costs and quality led to
my decision to buy it over the Honda Navigation system, which can be
availed for my latest Honda. ))

Randolph J. Herber, herber@fnal.gov, +1 630 840 2966, CD/CDFTF PK-149F,
Mail Stop 318, Fermilab, Kirk & Pine Rds., PO Box 500, Batavia, IL 60510-0500,
USA. (Speaking for myself and not for US, US DOE, FNAL nor URA.) (Product,
trade, or service marks herein belong to their respective owners.)

OK ...... i started this thread before I bought the car. I know have been
driving and playing with the built in unit for the last week. Have not taken
any our of town trio yet. Just testing it for the local area and all the
features. Simply put. I am amazed at the accuracy and the simplicity of it. I
can only compare it to the GPS 5 mind you, but just having the voice activation
feature is worth the lack of portability. 90% or more of all commands can be
activated by voice. Eyes never leaving the road. If i want to find some nearby
restaurants, I say "find nearest restaurants" and a listing comes up on that
beautiful 7" screen VERY fast. Matter of fact, I can say "find nearest italian
restaurants" "french" "fast food" and so on. Same for ATMs, shopping, and so
on. Not to mention that I can also control the cars climate control, cd player
and radio via voice. Worth every penny for the built in unit. But I will always
keep the GPS 5 for autdoor use and for rental cars if needed. But I am
extremely happy with the Honda system and I would bet whoever uses it feels the
same.
Rick

"Gary H" <a.b.u.s.e@wowway.com> wrote in message
news:2938t0l974thacpkojpm1rgk4eqf2s4718@4ax.com...

I agree that if you need portability, go with the 2610.

I only have one car. If I rent a car for business, I get the
Neverlost feature.

You are luckier than most. When I travel, my company does not pay for
niceties like the Hertz Neverlost (pay extra or get the full size). It's
always the no-frill subcompact. That's why I pack a 2610.

IMHO, I prefer the 2610 over the built-in nav system. It's faster and I can
put the display almost right in front of me, not to the middle of the
console that requires excessive look down time.

"RG1202" <rg1202@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20050103222224.23348.00002749@mb-m03.aol.com...
But I am

extremely happy with the Honda system and I would bet whoever uses it
feels the
same.
Rick

I sincerely hope so :). You paid close to 3 grand for it didn't you? I did
see the Honda system operating several times for several hours - not much
data gathering I admit, and the results like you said was impressive but the
2610 I've got is almost as good for 1/5 the price and I get to use it in any
car, when I travel, not just one. I can't see myself spending any amount of
money for something that's stuck in one car.