Ultimate GPS unit everyone should have?

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Daniel TONG
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 4:23 pm Post subject: Ultimate GPS unit everyone should have?

Andy

Quote:

OK. Let's ignore the minor detail that it doesn't have GPS built in.

GPS is an accessory for ppc. There are and there will be ,more ppc
with built-in gps

Quote:

Not very rugged is it? I wouldn't want to take that out where it
could
get wet or dropped.

There are rugged ppc as rugged as any dedicated gps unit. They are not
cheap though

Quote:

And the battery life isn't too good either and replacement batteries
aren't cheap if you can't take a charger with you.

My ppc lasts about 4 hours of continued use when using gps. And how
often do you have the gps on 4 hours on end while hiking or driving?

There are very handy and cheap $10 battery extender with aa batteries
when needed

Quote:

So yes, the ultimate hand held GPS other than breaking too easily,
not
lasting long enough and not having GPS.

Mark my word. In 3 yrs there will be combined ppc with the power of a
desktop (of 05 vintage) with gps and cell as well. It is the way to
go.

Quote:

How about you going and spamming some PPC group instead?

We are in an age of pc revolution (or miniturised pc =ppc) and gps
function can easily be taken care of in an updated ppc. Proprietary
software/handware are going nowhere at all.

I have a ppc with 1 G memory card loaded with 3/4 of all the States
costing only a fraction of a dedicated unit.

Daniel

Gabriel Ebner
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 5:07 pm Post subject: Re: Ultimate GPS unit everyone should have?

dtong22@yahoo.com (Daniel TONG) writes:

Quote:

Proprietary software/handware are going nowhere at all.

Guess what a PocketPC is. Exactly that, proprietary hardware with
proprietary software.

Gabriel.

Mark Hewitt
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 5:09 pm Post subject: Re: Ultimate GPS unit everyone should have?

"Gabriel Ebner" <ge@gabrielebner.at> wrote in message
news:87r7kjkknn.fsf@schnecke2.gabrielebner.at...

Quote:

dtong22@yahoo.com (Daniel TONG) writes:

Proprietary software/handware are going nowhere at all.

Guess what a PocketPC is. Exactly that, proprietary hardware with
proprietary software.

No, it's not. By proprietory one usually means made by only on manufacturer
and you don't have a choice in the matter. However there are several makers
of pocket PC's, HP, Dell, Acer etc they all do run the same OS, but I don't
believe there is anything to stop someone writing another OS.

And in this case the poster was referring to hardware which can only run one
GPS navigation package. With Pocket PC you have a choice of many.

Gabriel Ebner
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 5:28 pm Post subject: Re: Ultimate GPS unit everyone should have?

"Mark Hewitt" <mail@markhewittDotCoDotUk.spammers.will.die> writes:

Quote:

No, it's not. By proprietory one usually means made by only on manufacturer
and you don't have a choice in the matter.

Sorry, I'm used to another meaning:

,----[ http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Form=Dict2&Database=jargon&Query=proprietary ]
| proprietary adj. 1. In marketroid-speak, superior; implies a
| product imbued with exclusive magic by the unmatched brilliance of
| the company's own hardware or software designers. 2. In the
| language of hackers and users, inferior; implies a product not
| conforming to open-systems standards, and thus one that puts the
| customer at the mercy of a vendor able to gouge freely on service
| and upgrade charges after the initial sale has locked the customer
| in. Often used in the phrase "proprietary crap". 3. Synonym for
| closed-source, e.g. software issued in binary without source and
| under a restrictive license.
`----

In the meaning you describe, just the PocketPC's software is
proprietary, so you're right.

Quote:

but I don't believe there is anything to stop someone writing
another OS.

Nothing except missing documentation from the manufacturers.

Gabriel.

Mark Hewitt
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 5:49 pm Post subject: Re: Ultimate GPS unit everyone should have?

"Gabriel Ebner" <ge@gabrielebner.at> wrote in message
news:87is5uly8e.fsf@schnecke2.gabrielebner.at...

Quote:

Nothing except missing documentation from the manufacturers.

How did microsoft obtain the information? If the manufacturers gave
Microsoft that information and withheld it from everyone else, I believe
that would be illegal.

Meindert Sprang
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 6:13 pm Post subject: Re: Ultimate GPS unit everyone should have?

"Daniel TONG" <dtong22@yahoo.com> wrote in message

Quote:

GPS is an accessory for ppc. There are and there will be ,more ppc
with built-in gps

Ah, even more battery drain....

Quote:

There are rugged ppc as rugged as any dedicated gps unit. They are not
cheap though

Mmm.... how rugged can a touchscreen be?

Quote:

My ppc lasts about 4 hours of continued use when using gps. And how
often do you have the gps on 4 hours on end while hiking or driving?

Well, on my boat, I use it as a log and compass, so it's on for 8 or 9 hours
non-stop.

Quote:

There are very handy and cheap $10 battery extender with aa batteries
when needed

Another loose item dangling around, wires breaking..... Oh and how do I put
the power connector in the PPC while sitting in it's aquapack?

Meindert

Albert Nurick
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 8:58 pm Post subject: Re: Ultimate GPS unit everyone should have?

dtong22@yahoo.com (Daniel TONG) wrote in news:c2324ab.0501180323.3ed99e71
@posting.google.com:

Quote:

There are rugged ppc as rugged as any dedicated gps unit. They are not
cheap though

I think you're mistaken about this, too. Many dedicated GPSes are designed
for use in a marine environment, and can withstand being submerged. On a
boat or a motorcycle, this is essential. AFAIK, no consumer PDA can
withstand these environmental conditions.

Quote:

Mark my word. In 3 yrs there will be combined ppc with the power of a
desktop (of 05 vintage) with gps and cell as well. It is the way to
go.

Could very well be. But what's out there now isn't it, so calling the
current model the "Ultimate GPS" opened you up to a wee bit of well-
deserved criticism.

--
Albert Nurick | Nurick + Associates - Web Design
albert@nurick.com | eCommerce - Content Management
www.nurick.com | Web Applications - Hosting

JohnF
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 10:25 pm Post subject: Re: Ultimate GPS unit everyone should have?

"Daniel TONG" <dtong22@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c2324ab.0501180323.3ed99e71@posting.google.com...

Quote:

Andy
My ppc lasts about 4 hours of continued use when using gps. And how
often do you have the gps on 4 hours on end while hiking or driving?

The question is how often DON'T I have the GPS on for four hours while
hiking. While hiking over the course of a weekend I have it on the entire
time I'm hiking to save the tracks. That's the point in having it. I use
every bit of the 20 hours I get on my 60CS. Four hours would be pathetically
inadequate.

Quote:

There are very handy and cheap $10 battery extender with aa batteries
when needed

More weight while hiking. No thanks.

Quote:

Mark my word. In 3 yrs there will be combined ppc with the power of a
desktop (of 05 vintage) with gps and cell as well. It is the way to
go.

Your word has been marked and I have no doubt that this will be true. You're
pretty much stating the obvious but what you don't want to accept is that
not everyone needs/wants these things combined into one product. What I've
found typically is if you combine multiple functions into one product it
doesn't do any of them well. I'd rather stick with seprate products where I
can select the one of each that fits my needs the best.

I'm not sure what your point is here unless you're trying to sell something?
Why are you trying to push this issue so hard?

Stan Gosnell
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 11:00 pm Post subject: Re: Ultimate GPS unit everyone should have?

dtong22@yahoo.com (Daniel TONG) wrote in news:c2324ab.0501180323.3ed99e71
@posting.google.com:

Quote:

My ppc lasts about 4 hours of continued use when using gps. And how
often do you have the gps on 4 hours on end while hiking or driving?

Often. In fact, most of the time. However, when driving, I do use a
Palm with my GPS for driving directions, and power both from the
cigarette lighter. Driving isn't the problem, and I agree with you that
a PDA and a cheap GPS is the way to go for that. But you need a
dedicated GPS for hiking, biking, or almost anything other than driving.
It doesn't necessarily need all the road mapping capabilities, but it
does absolutely have to be rugged and waterproof, and have very long
battery life. Bluetooth is worthless in a GPS, because it shortens the
life of both the GPS and the PDA, and you have to use a cable for power
for both anyway.

--
Regards,

Stan

Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 11:33 pm Post subject: Re: Ultimate GPS unit everyone should have?

Quote:

I agree to this to an extent. Look at a calculator nowaday compared
with a desktop. I must say a dedicated calculator may be better off
under certain circumstances. 99% of the other circumstance, a computer
will prevail. I can also say that a dedicated gps is almost a must
for marine, topo and avaition use. For automotive, it can be done in a
lot cheaper and efficient manner.
A gps is just another comp (with its harddrive, memory card, memory,
cpu, motherboard, vdo card., sound card, display.......) . With huge
advance in the computer field , dedicated gps looks more like where
a dedicated calculator goes.

Quote:

I'm not sure what your point is here unless you're trying to sell
something?

I am selling the point that I have just made knowing that this
newsgroup is suffocated with incessant by sales pitch re dedicted gps
hardware/software. And we all know which companies dominate.
Daniel

Peter
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 11:50 pm Post subject: Re: Ultimate GPS unit everyone should have?

Daniel TONG wrote:

Quote:

OK. Let's ignore the minor detail that it doesn't have GPS built in.

GPS is an accessory for ppc. There are and there will be ,more ppc
with built-in gps

But not built-in for the one you promoted as the "ultimate". And the
accessory GPS frequently costs as much as many dedicated GPS units
which can work as either standalone or accessories.

Quote:

Not very rugged is it? I wouldn't want to take that out where it

could

get wet or dropped.

There are rugged ppc as rugged as any dedicated gps unit. They are not
cheap though

But not the one you promoted as the "ultimate."

And the battery life isn't too good either and replacement batteries
aren't cheap if you can't take a charger with you.

My ppc lasts about 4 hours of continued use when using gps. And how
often do you have the gps on 4 hours on end while hiking or driving?

At least four days per week - for bicycling, hiking, or kayaking. It's
my primary speedometer/odometer so I keep it on all the time while
moving. That also lets me record a continuous tracklog.

Quote:

There are very handy and cheap $10 battery extender with aa batteries
when needed

Changing batteries while on stormy seas in a kayak isn't very safe or
convenient. Especially since the device probably won't work too well
with salt water spray getting into the connectors and open battery
compartment (even if it were otherwise waterproof).

Quote:

So yes, the ultimate hand held GPS other than breaking too easily,

not

lasting long enough and not having GPS.

Mark my word. In 3 yrs there will be combined ppc with the power of a
desktop (of 05 vintage) with gps and cell as well. It is the way to
go.

All the more reason not to get the soon to be obsolete primitive
versions of that which are available now.
However there are numerous drawbacks to the multi-purpose device so
I'm not so convinced they won't continue to co-exist with specialized
devices for some time to come. As an example, clock functions are
built into many portable electronic devices and as a result I stopped
wearing a watch many years ago. Yet I still see plenty of new watches
being sold.

Quote:

How about you going and spamming some PPC group instead?

We are in an age of pc revolution (or miniturised pc =ppc) and gps
function can easily be taken care of in an updated ppc. Proprietary
software/handware are going nowhere at all.

I have a ppc with 1 G memory card loaded with 3/4 of all the States
costing only a fraction of a dedicated unit.

Dedicated units which support 1G memory cards have been rather widely
sold new for as little as $99 (base Meridian). What fraction of that
did your system cost (incl. the GPS accessory)?

Seagull
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 5:01 am Post subject: Re: Ultimate GPS unit everyone should have?

In alt.satellite.gps dtong22@yahoo.com wrote:

Quote:

What fantasy world are you living in? If only a computer were as easy to
use as a calculator...

Cheers,
-+JLS

--
\ carpe cavy!
seagull @ aracnet.com \
http://www.aracnet.com/~seagull/ \ (seize the guinea pig!)

Andy
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 8:13 am Post subject: Re: Ultimate GPS unit everyone should have?

Mark Hewitt wrote:

Quote:

"Gabriel Ebner" <ge@gabrielebner.at> wrote in message
news:87is5uly8e.fsf@schnecke2.gabrielebner.at...

Nothing except missing documentation from the manufacturers.

How did microsoft obtain the information? If the manufacturers gave
Microsoft that information and withheld it from everyone else, I believe
that would be illegal.

Microsoft obtained that information the easy way. They specified it.
Microsoft will only sell the PPC OS to you if you match certain hardware
requirements. The exact details of those requirements and the licensing
requirements for PPC are covered by NDA. Lets just say that they are strict.

Andy
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 8:13 am Post subject: Re: Ultimate GPS unit everyone should have?

Daniel TONG wrote:

Quote:

OK. Let's ignore the minor detail that it doesn't have GPS built in.

GPS is an accessory for ppc. There are and there will be ,more ppc
with built-in gps

Well if there will be more PPC with built in GPS how is this HP device
which doesn't have GPS built in count as the ultimate GPSR?

Quote:

Not very rugged is it? I wouldn't want to take that out where it
could get wet or dropped.

There are rugged ppc as rugged as any dedicated gps unit. They are not
cheap though

Again by your statement you are accepting that you're ultimate GPS is
lacking features that other systems have.
Yes you can get rugged PDAs (the TDS Recon springs to mind). They aren't
as rugged as a GPS. The display/touchscreen is always the weak point in
a PDA.

Quote:

And the battery life isn't too good either and replacement batteries
aren't cheap if you can't take a charger with you.

My ppc lasts about 4 hours of continued use when using gps. And how
often do you have the gps on 4 hours on end while hiking or driving?

I'm not sure. My GPS runs long enough to be logging positions all day so
I've not needed to worry about that.

Quote:

There are very handy and cheap $10 battery extender with aa batteries
when needed

A stand along GPS doesn't need the $10 battery extender in order to use
those same batteries. Less parts, more reliable, more rugged and cheaper
on that point.

Quote:

So yes, the ultimate hand held GPS other than breaking too easily,
not lasting long enough and not having GPS.

Mark my word. In 3 yrs there will be combined ppc with the power of a
desktop (of 05 vintage) with gps and cell as well. It is the way to
go.

That may well be true in 3 years time but I doubt it.
That sort of CPU power at a low enough power for an acceptable cell
phone life? Have you read the specs for the bulverde and other similar
class CPUs? The OMAP2 from TI is by far the best on power draw right now
but lacks the brute computing power, the lintel parts are faster but the
power consumption sucks.
Either way they aren't going to be getting anywhere near the performance
of a desktop for a while yet. A 500MHz DPA is a long long way below the
speed of a 500MHz desktop.
(Short version: Don't try arguing future PDA performance specs with
someone who's designed PCs and PDAs ;-))

And this is all getting off topic. What has the hardware available in 3
years time got to with the ultimate GPS unit everyone should have now?
I agree, PPC may well be the way the markets moving for GPS. That
doesn't make it technically better.

Quote:

We are in an age of pc revolution (or miniturised pc =ppc) and gps
function can easily be taken care of in an updated ppc. Proprietary
software/handware are going nowhere at all.

Windows is about as proprietary as it gets.

Quote:

I have a ppc with 1 G memory card loaded with 3/4 of all the States
costing only a fraction of a dedicated unit.

Depends what sort of dedicated unit you are talking about. You can buy a
GPS for $100. A PDA with a 1G memory card costs a lot more than that
without even adding GPS functionality.
If you are talking a GPS with equivalent functionality to your PDA plus
a GPS then yes the GPS will end up costing more. That's because they are
targeted at different markets with different functionality requirements.

Long term you are probably correct, most consumer GPS will end up being
PDA based. And since MS want to combine PDAs and cell phones that is the
way the PDA market will end up moving, they don't have any choice if
they want to be able to buy the OS.
But there is also always going to be a market for more rugged products
for use in situations where a PDA just isn't suitable.

Andy
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 8:13 am Post subject: Re: Ultimate GPS unit everyone should have?

I notice you missed the other points on battery life and weight ;-)

dtong22@yahoo.com wrote:

Quote:

Your word has been marked and I have no doubt that this will be true.
You're
pretty much stating the obvious but what you don't want to accept is
that
not everyone needs/wants these things combined into one product.

I agree to this to an extent. Look at a calculator nowaday compared
with a desktop. I must say a dedicated calculator may be better off
under certain circumstances. 99% of the other circumstance, a computer
will prevail.

I have a calculator sitting by my keyboard. It's quicker, easier, has
run for 12 years on one battery, hasn't blue screened on me once, hasn't
cost anything to upgrade and has never had a virus.

Now if I wanted to perform a couple of thousand calculations then yes a
computer is better but that's not what the calculator was designed for.

A simple dedicated unit is far more efficient for the tasks it was
designed for than a large generalized device. The penalty is a lack of
flexibility. That has always been true and will remain true for a very
long time.

By your argument you would carry a laptop around with you to tell the
time because it can do so much more than a watch.

Quote:

I can also say that a dedicated gps is almost a must
for marine, topo and avaition use.

For marine use I would want something more waterproof.
For topo work I would want something more accurate than any consumer
grade GPS.
And for aviation use I would want something more stable than a MS product.

Quote:

For automotive, it can be done in a lot cheaper and efficient manner.
A gps is just another comp (with its harddrive, memory card, memory,
cpu, motherboard, vdo card., sound card, display.......).

Look inside a GPS (or a PDA for that matter) No hard drive. No
motherboard, videocard or sound card.
We are talking embedded systems not PCs. It's a whole different ball game.

Quote:

With huge advance in the computer field , dedicated gps looks more like
where a dedicated calculator goes.

Cheaper, more efficient and more reliable but less flexible?
Sounds about right to me.

Feel free to buy a car where the engine management and anti-lock breaks
are running on windows.
I'll stick to ones where it's running on propritery hardware if it's all
the same to you.

Quote:

I'm not sure what your point is here unless you're trying to sell

something?

I am selling the point that I have just made knowing that this
newsgroup is suffocated with incessant by sales pitch re dedicted gps
hardware/software. And we all know which companies dominate.

OK, pop quiz. Which companies dominate the GPS market? I bet you'll miss
several of the big players ;-)

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